Over the next weeks, we will be reading/studying Kate Chopin's famous novel The Awakening. Just to get you started, I wanted to give you some links to look at and consider.
- The Awakening is considered a novel that falls into the literary Realism period. Realism was supposed to be a "slice of life," and ask the reader to question how true a situation was to what real people might experience.
- Kate Chopin was a strong woman of her time. Her life led her down a path of seeming independence. See this VCU biography of her life.
- Where is one's greater allegiance to the upholding of society or to the happiness of oneself? In other words, how important is society's approval on what you do in life?
- In this novel, women were seen as a direct reflection of the men they married or were associated with. In fact, the main character of The Awakening was, to some degree, considered the property of her husband. We know that things are different today, and yet have some things stayed the same? Honestly, I'm just curious! Do you think that a woman's role has changed a lot? How?
- Do you ever think we're just too emotional about life and need to just "get real," put our heads down, and get a job done? Do you ever think people should just "deal" and move on, or is there value in evaluating why people feel so strongly about certain situations?
I'm responding to the third question about how people deal with certain situations:
ReplyDeleteEveryone out there is different in the way they respond to events. People have different personalities, different quirks, are in different situations or even have disorders that make it more difficult for them to just simply "deal" with their jobs (or work in general). Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just sit down, do our work, and move on to the next thing?
I believe it is important to evaluate why people feel the way they do, because it affects me personally, but it also helps other people to understand. It is okay to sit back and tell yourself, "I am confused and stressed, let's sort it out here." I believe all of this . . . to an extent. If you are constantly stuck in evaluation and organizing your emotions, you won't get anywhere. Yes it will be more difficult, by nature, for some people to do certain tasks than others, but this doesn't mean you can't do it. Sort out your problems, give yourself some room to breathe, then sit down and do your work.
I have a really hard time, when I'm stressed, to just sit down and do the work because I do have anxiety disorders, so I do see the need to evaluate why people respond the way they do to situations. I'll admit that I procrastinate some (a lot) of the time, but if you push yourself, you can accomplish any task set before you.
I am responding to the question where does one's allegiance lie, with society or self?(AKA the first one)
ReplyDeleteIn many cases, society's approval claims a vital role in the way in which one acts. While most of us want to say that we do not care what others think of us, this statement is hard to uphold. It is extremely difficult to simply act without wondering, even for a split second, about what others might think of you based on what you did; it's all a part of our human nature. Face it; we are very prideful beings, even though we may try, or pretend, with every fiber of our being not to be.
However, society is not the only force governing our thoughts and actions; it is in fact only a fraction of what drives each of our choices. The fact is, every one of us, after all of the self-consciousness runs its course, reverts to self-preservation and pleasure. There comes a point in every situation where we toss all cares to the wind and simply act.
While the allegiance should most definitely be on our own self-approval, oftentimes we crisscross the line between the approval of society and that of our consciences, all for one main reason: we, as humans, are very complicated. We want to be accepted, then we want to be our true selves; we yearn for approval, then we shun being stereotyped; we spend hours getting ready, then give up and roll out of bed; we gossip and slander, then console and befriend. If an outsider tried to follow the train of thought and emotion in another's brain, they would surely get whiplash, especially when it comes to the pride which lives inside of each of us and governs how we act around our fellow men and in society.
Megan Fotheringham A4: I am responding to the second question about women's roles in society
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I would like to point out how interesting it is that Kate Chopin was a woman who pushed the boudaries of women's rights in a time period where women were allowed little if any room to explore themselves. If you read in the biography of her life that Miss. Rhodehouse provided, than you find that Kate was raised primarily by her mother, grandmother, and great-grandmother, all of whom were widows. These women didn't have husbands that pressured them to make a good impression in society anymore. This freedom that Kate experiences throughout her life is reflected in the character Edna who yearns for freedom.
Today we feel that men and women have acheived equality. There have been great sucesses such as, women in the workforce, earning equal wages, the right to vote, joining poilitics and much more. There has also been holding back by some. Although we have reached great heights in women's rights there are still some who view a wife with a submissive role that dutifully waits on her husband and is a part of him. There is still a view of the wife as a symbol of how much the husband earns etc. I think that though there has been great progress, there is still room for improvement.
Chenelle H. B2...
ReplyDeleteQuestion 1... My 'allegiance' is to my God, my country, and my self. I could care less what society thinks of my personal decisions. Not to say that i don't care about what others think but, that my decisions are my own. My choice to join the army was mine to make others had their input but the overall decision was mine and made on my thought and wishes. When we think about how others will view us, or what they will think about us doing certain things, we lose the greatest thing God has given us...our own beautifuls lives. People get so caught up in the thoughts of how others will react to things we do that we lose sight of what we want, freedom.
Freedom to me is the most valuable thing I have. I love the thought of being able to do what I please because I want to. Freedom is our God given right and we loose it when we worry about others reactions. The worry we put ourselves through for the 'sake' of others chains us down and takes away even a little bit of our freedom. Freedom for me is a way of life, the only way to live life really. But of course with freedom 'comes great responability' as a very wise man once said. Even though we have the right and the will to do as we please we must also be willing to suffer the consequences. When we choose to make a decision we choose everything that goes with it. For instance when you choose to drink, your choosing to take a drink, to loose brain cells, your choosing the hang over the next morning.
So I do not worry about what the world or my peers will think about the things i do. I just worry about what I am getting into and how much I really want to do it. I weight the action with the consequence (cheesey I know). Nonetheless, an allegiance to yourself is the only way to keep freedom and to live. I'm not saying that when I make decisions concerning others I don't take them into consideration. Just that when I choose to do somthing I don't think about how society will view that decision.
Question 2... I can't believe I am going to say this... I womans role today has change to some degree, but in others it has not. A woman is still looked upon as the home maker. Not that this is a bad thing, but women have tried so hard to become a mans equal that one would think it was more that way. In todays society we see more and more women stepping up to the plate and being successful. And men are still saying 'but she's a woman!' It makes me wounder how equal we truely are. There are men who are willing to say yes she is a woman but she knows what she is doing, and can let them lead. And there are men who still can't believe that women are becoming successful buisness leaders, political office holders, and holding other offices of power.
On the other hand, women are still seen as the homemaker. They are still to some extent expected to raise the chioldren, clean the house and do other things to that sort. Don't get me wrong I'm not bashing on stay at home mom's more power to them. I am simply staiting that a womens role in todays society can still be held to that of her husband. If her husband is a wealthy man, people look to her differently then if her husband was a garbageman earning minimum wage. We use money as the big deciding factor in society today even as they did back then.
Question 3... Yes to all of the above. I do believe that people get overly emotional with life and need to come back to earth. Some either get too caught up in the fairytale that they need to have a reality check. I believe that people need to 'just deal' with lifes situatuions but that there are reasons for each persons reaction. Everyone responds differently to the situations they are put into due to the lifes they lead. Each person has had different life styles and problems so they react the way they have learned. But, sometimes people need to grow up take it. You can't always run and hide from real life. You must step out of your comfort zone and see the trials through. Through our trials we becme stronger. They may be very hard and seem like they will never end, but there is always a reason (cliche I know). Our lives can't always be perfect otherwise, what would make the great experiences great? Why would certain things meen more ot you then others? With out the bad we can't see the true beauty of the great.
Do you ever think we're just too emotional about life and need to just "get real," put our heads down, and get a job done? Do you ever think people should just "deal" and move on, or is there value in evaluating why people feel so strongly about certain situations?
ReplyDeleteI'm responding to the third question. Personally, I think that the world is full of way too much drama. People aren't as hard-working as they used to be. Nowadays, whining is often associated with difficult tasks. I think it shows good character when a person just accepts things as they are, does the job without complaint, and gets on with it. Of course, this doesn't mean that I think people should walk through life as dull, emotionless drones; everyone just needs tone down the drama and exercise some fortitude when faced with difficult situations.
Sorry, forgot to delete the question! Oops.
ReplyDeleteI'm responding to the first question about the importance of society.
ReplyDeleteWe've discussed a lot of questions like this in debate; questions about whether it's more important to uphold an individual's rights or the security of a society as a whole. In my mind, no society is more important to a person than his or her own happiness, or his or her family's.
Honestly, nobody is going to make a decision based on what is best for society. When it comes down to it, everyone (aside from the one or two radical zealots who love the motherland more than their own souls) will do what will help themselves or their loved ones the most.
It’s really kind of a deep philosophical point, but I believe societies were only created to help ensure individual rights. Some societies fail because the government leaders are selfish or corrupt. However, when you have a just society, people uphold it because it ensures their own happiness. When a government no longer does this, people disobey and do what makes them happy. No matter how much I love America, if a law was passed that families could only have one child or religion was outlawed, I would stick it to the man and either leave or civilly disobey.
My point with that long-winded and philosophical and boring paragraph boils down to this: nobody is going to value society more than their own happiness. They support society as long as it coincides with their happiness, but disobey when it does not. I really hope that makes sense, because it sounded great in my head.
Question 1: Is one’s greater allegiance to upholding society of achieving personal happiness? To answer this question I look at if from a much broader perspective. What is the purpose of life? Were we born into this meaningless existence merely to uphold societal norms, or to achieve self realization and find happiness with one’s self. It’s a bit religious in nature, but who cares. I believe overall one’s loyalties belong first and fore most to one’s self, all other loyalties come second. If the question is find personal happiness, or uphold the structure of society, personal happiness should always come first
ReplyDeleteHow important is society’s approval on what I do in life? Absolutely zero! Maybe you asked the wrong person; personally I don’t care what society approves about me life. People in general however, I still don’t believe it’s that big a deal, but still has importance. No one wants to be the total black sheep of society.
-Josh Van Steeter
For question one:
ReplyDeleteI think that society definitely does play a role in our decision making process. However, I don't think that this is the only thing that affects what we do, and it shouldn't be either. Society discourages murder, but some would argue that the murder they committed was for their personal happiness. Which one should people ally themselves with? In this case, I believe the pressure on society against murder is a good thing, no matter what the belief of the individual is.
In other situations, the individuals happiness should be placed above what society sanctions as good. I also believe that there are certain things in the "rules" of society that should be followed, regardless of personal feelings. Strong personal feelings, however, might be better to follow in many situations, it just needs to be realized that society places consequences on certain actions and these can't often be entirely avoided. Many situations that wouldn't have as large of a consequence from society, such as wearing nice clothes to a restaurant, can be decided by either society or self, and it probably wouldn't make a difference.
For the third question:
There are many times when people react in the heat of the moment and later end up regretting their actions, such as getting into a fight. Other times, when individuals act based on the facts only and not their emotions, they will end up regretting this as well, such as a marriage for wealth. I definitely think that emotions are key to making decisions, but there is a certain point at which people just need to deal with it and move on. Too much emotion and too much logic are both harmful; a balance of both would probably create less regret. There are definitely times in life, though, that it feels like you need to just have your emotional break down, but you can't let that rule you for long.
Do you ever think we're just too emotional?... This attitude of "Get Real" to me seems selfish. Perhaps you tell someone that they should just get over their dumb divorce and move on when you yourself have no idea what they are experiencing. There is a great amount of value in determining why a certain situation could take so much emotion out of someone. Some situations can be different but we are all living on emotional levels...I heard a comedy routine once that I think answers this question well...This comedian thinks that we should not get so mad at our children when they lose their balloon and start crying. He goes on by comparing this to an adult tying their wallet to a string and watching it float away. The point I am trying to make is that what may be a big deal to one individual or one group may not phase another group or individual. There is great value in examining why someone may be so emotional over something.
ReplyDeleteThat was Melissa Perry -A4
ReplyDeleteI will respond to the first question:
ReplyDeleteThere is not really one definite answer in my mind. Like everything, it seems, the answer is somewhere in the middle. On the one hand, it is very important to do what makes you happy. We're always told, "Don't let what other people say get you down." It is important to put off society's criticism a lot of the time, or you may find yourself a slave to the opinions of others, always trying to be that ideal person that you can never be.
On the other hand, if someone puts off the criticisms of society to the extent that they become a threat to others, that's a little to far. Society, while it can sometimes promote useless or harmful morals, it can also promote good morals. For example, society doesn't agree with murder. If some homocidal maniac finds pleasure in killing and disregards the voice of society, that's not so great for everyone else (granted, this is a very extreme example).
While it is important to live your own life, keep up your self esteem, follow your dreams, etc., society acts at times as a sort of governing body that keeps order. It's important to balance both.
I am responding to the 1st question on our allegiance to ourselves or to society.
ReplyDeleteIn psychology we are discussing adolescents and the battle between individuality and conformity. We want to be unique and true to ourselves, and yet, a part of us conforms and follows the crowd. In the teenage years, this is due to a physical change in the brain; the pre-frontal cortex is developing. This physical change is the reason for the internal stress.
I believe that this battle doesn't even stop in the teenage years, and it progresses into adulthood,along everything that we do. As humans, we will always wonder if what we do is acceptable by society. However, even though this condition of uncertainty can overwhelm us, we must constantly battle it to follow our morals and what we personally believe is right. We need to develop the strength to go against the crowd and follow our own true standards and only then can we be truly satisfied with who we are.
Megan Fotheringham A4:
ReplyDeleteI wanted to respond to what Brianna said about how we often are bound by what we think would be acceptable in society. I agree that although we want to be accepted by the group it is also important to us to be true to ourselves and do what we think is best. It is a difficult part of life to balance our own individuality and going with the crowd.
Chenelle Hansen B2 responding to Yvette Eggleston
ReplyDeleteWomen high in society went to parties and were "objects" that their husbands showed off. They socialized with other women and men and had little to do. Women lower in society were expected to prepare the meals and to raise the children. While the second expectation is more common today, it is not enforced. Women of today have many more freedoms.
What you just explained is not much different from today. The higher class still parade around showing off the beauty of their wives and the fine jewlery that the husbands can provide. While the 'lower class' still raise the children and are the homemakers. Granted we can do more as you mentioned with voting, this doesn't mean that we have society has changed towards women. I believe that societies wall against women is slowly falling piece by piece but the overall look is generally the same with the same concepts I mentioned before. Even if we tell our selves that it has changed completly(believe me I do) we must look at the facts at hand, the higher class still show-off and have nanies to raise children, while the lower take care of their own. Of course there are the exceptions but then again there were those back then too.
What I am trying to say is this, just because we have more 'freedoms', if you will, doesn't mean our 'roles' have changed.
First Question:
ReplyDeleteEveryone's true allegiance is to the society. Sad but true. No matter how much we might say we don't care what others think, we are always trying harder to get the approval and attention of others. This especially happens in high school because that is all that teenagers want; to feel a sense of approval and belonging. Even after high school, college students are still trying to impress others. But once you get married you're completely satisfied with yourself right? Wrong! Look at all the young mothers in small neighborhoods. They are constantly trying to outdo each other with a bigger quilt, better baked bread, more "in style" home decorations. Dads are just as bad with their big screen tv's adn speedy cars. They may just claim these are their hobbies, but in reality they truly want other people's praise to make them happy. Men can't be happy with their fancy cars and boats unless they can rub it in someone else' face right?
No matter what age we are, our happiness is dependent on society's opinion. I think we all would like to only care about our own happiness, but unless we learn to be completely satisfied with ourselves,we will still be seeking for approval to feed us our joy. Perhaps once we're really old we'll finally learn to be true to ourselves and be happy without seeking approval of others.
-Melinda Ahlstrom
Chenelle Hansen commenting on Melida Ahlstrom's post...
ReplyDeleteEveryone's true allegiance is to the society. Sad but true. No matter how much we might say we don't care what others think, we are always trying harder to get the approval and attention of others...
I beg to differ. I can say with out a doubt in my mind that i don't care what society thinks about what i do. I may take certain people into consideration but not society. I can honestly say that the isms of society don't take a tole on my actions. I am not so petty that I have to worry about what others think. I have my own thoughts and freedoms for one reason, to use them for me not society.
Great comments so far guys! I wish I was there and could discuss this in class a little. Does anyone see connections between these questions and the novel yet?
ReplyDeleteWell, take care! Good luck with elections this week, and I'll talk to you soon.
Ms. R :)
Shelby Jane Terrell- B2
ReplyDeleteFirst off I would like to ask.. was I supposed to get on on the 23? Cuz I just thought we were supposed to get on anytime between now and the 31st.. anyways..
I would like to respond to the second question. I am very passionate about womans rights and their equality compared to the male species. On page 3, paragraph 3, Mr. Pontellier says that his wife is a valuable piece of personal property ect.. I do not find this to be an appropriate or healty way to exist in a relationship. I feel that the womans role has changed to some extent, but the extent is up to each individual woman and how she conducts herself in society. If she allows herself to become property.. thats her weak sense of self and its her problem. And men should not take advantage of that.
Responding to the first question I would have to say that most people seek the acceptance of society before self-acceptance. There are always exceptions, and I truly respect the people who honestly don't care what society thinks, but for most of us it is a psychological need to be socially accepted.
ReplyDeleteFor most people, self-acceptence is directly related to being socially accepted. If you feel like you fit in in society then your self-esteem will be higher than if you are socially rejected.
Even those who say they do not care what society thinks usually stick together in their own group. Within their clique they still seek the acceptance of peers, even if that acceptance comes by acting as if they don't care about being accepted. (That was more clear in my head lol). I don't care who you are, no matter how much you try to stay true to yourself society still has an influence on you because it is a need for all human beings to be accepted.
BUT.... I have always been one to think higher of people in general than most. I believe that if it really came down to the choice between society or self, most people would be true to themselves. I don't believe society has enough impact to change who a person is. No matter how much we choose to conform to society, when it comes down to it everyone will be true to themselves.
That's my 2 cents :)
-Ryan Curtis B2
As far as the first question, I strongly believe in the pursuit of your own dreams and desires despite the expectations or rules of society. As we see in the novel, if you allow your life to be dictated by others, you will remain unhappy and restless as you frequently suppress the longing to do something else. I think most individuals in society would opt for following their hearts but fear of the opinions of those surrounding them inhibit them from acting on their impulses.
ReplyDeleteThe society in the novel demonstrates this aspect excellently. Women were taught since birth to obey their husbands and behave a certain way. Thinking and doing differently from the majority was seen as unacceptable and resulted in ostracism. Thus, fearing the consequences of conflict, they refrained from deviating from the consensus.
Therefore, though people in today's world would advocate individuality, the fear of gossip and judgment still remains. It takes a great deal of bravery and self assurance to ignore the neverending criticisms of others to follow your own path.
- Sabree Crowton B2
In response to Brandon Leishman's comment . . . . . .
ReplyDeleteI think he makes an excellent point in that self evaluation is crucial as long as we do not become too overly critical about our every behavior. Psychology is an entire science dedicated to studying why we feel what we feel and why we do the things we do because people need to understand their reactions in order to progress as individuals.
Personally, when I take time for self reflection I often gain perspective on life situations and feel more aware of my environment. I can make better decisions for the future after learning from my mistakes. However, we must be cautious in examining ourselves because if we become consumed with analyzing our lives we aren't truly living.
- Sabree Crowton B2
I am responding to Megan Fotheringham's comment...
ReplyDeleteI agree that views and rights of women have excelled exponentially. Women have made great leaps for equality with men, and obtained many rights that were previously withheld from them. They are taking charge and showing the world what they are made of and what they can accomplish.
However, I also agree with Megan that women are still treated as an object. You see this mindset more frequently in dating today. Constantly, we are hearing of stories where the boys take advantage of girls; abusing them mentally, emotionally, and physically, just because they believe that they can be treated as an object. (Of course, none of the guys at Lehi are doing this :D .) Even though we have achieved a great deal in raising the standing of women, we still have a long road in store for us to achieve total equality.
In response to Danny Russon's comment:
ReplyDeleteAGH! It erased my first response . . . so here we go again!
I completely agree with your response, and specifically your first sentence on finding a middle ground.
This situation reminds me of the first amendments' right to freedom of speech. Someone once tried to explain the limits on this as, "My right to extend my arm ends at your nose." You can say what you want until it detrimentally affects someone else.
When tied into the question, your example (Jordan also brought this up) on murder is perfect. You can, and your should, do what you need to give yourself happiness, but when your happiness actually hurts someone else (hurt . . . kill) then you've crossed the line.
Like Danny said, it's important to balance what is good for you and what is good for society.
I also liked his idea that society is a, "governing body that keeps order." Good stuff there, Danny!
In response to Brandon Leishman's comment, I completely agree when he said, "If you are constantly stuck in evaluation and organizing your emotions, you won't get anywhere." Some people are always just thinking about their life, and evaluating and analyzing specific situations. Although it is fine to do this to some extent, people should learn to move past their problem and get busy. Girls especially love to analyze EVERYTHING over and over. Boys usually just want to get the job done, whereas girls would love to talk about all the details. If girls could learn to not talk so much and not dwell on certain aspects, a lot more work could get done. Although emotional analysis is good to express how you feel and to get everything out in the open, in most situations it would be a lot better to just get busy and get the job done.
ReplyDelete-Melinda Ahlstrom
I'm responding to the third quetion. I think that to an extent people do need to get over things and just move on. However, I only associate this view with the type of people that get upset over everything and feel like they always need to be compensated for what has happened to them. For instance, when you're at the pool and you step on a pine cone is there a real need to sue the facility for not warning you about the pine cones on the grass...? When it comes to this attitude most people have these days, I think we should all just take a step back and say "Next time I'll watch where I'm walking so I can make sure NOT to step on a pine cone." Bingo. Problem solved.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, there are many people that have been put into sad and difficult circumstances. To tell these people to get over it would be completely selfish. We don't know what exactly our friends are going through or what kind of atmosphere they go home to. When it comes to these people who have truly been emotionally and mentally hurt we all need to understand the value of being sensitive to their feelings and why they are the way they are.
Jordan Martin
B4
In response to Shelby Terrell's comment on the second question. I completely agree with her thoughts about the way a woman conducts herself in society. I believe that if you are determined to do something, man or woman, you really can do it. If a woman has no strong desire to go to college and stand on her own two feet, she won't. She will end up marrying a man, never working, and raising babies (not that this is a bad thing). The same goes for men. Without a dream and a burning desire, you won't accomplish much in your life.
ReplyDeleteJordan Martin
B4
I'm responding to the first question.
ReplyDeleteI think that society plays a major role on our actions, and how we carry ourselves day to day. I think that despite what people would like to believe, their allegiances lie with society, and how it reacts to what a person does. It is human nature to seek for positive comments and approval from the outside world on things that we do. If this were not the case, how would the "worldly" industries be thriving like they are? Magazines, movies, and the media as a whole all portray these standards that we feel we need to meet. Proof, that we tend to side with soceity then what we want ourselves.
I do believe that people should find it in themselves to seek their approval from themselves. They should do what they want, and not what the world is telling them is appropriate. In certain situations people are able to do this for themselves. Or they say that they can do it for themselves. But truly, deep down we all know we seek for a society stamp of approval on everything we say, wear, or do. It's just the world we live in, and I don't think there is much we can do to change it. It can though be positive. The society approval stamp can also act as a good thing for us to seek for, and it is not always negative. It is just using it in balance, and being able to tell the difference that people seem to struggle with.
Whitney Page
A4
Shelby Terrell, B2
ReplyDeleteI am writing in response to Sabree's comment, and I completly agree. In today's society, Americans encourage breaking social norms and make it a norm to go against conformity while conforming to the rebellion. Make sense?? We make a game out of it. So while we each think we are unique and making an effort to be different.. we are doing it together. Our unconcious will do anything to conciously please other people. It is normal to want to feel accepted. So after you accept the fact that we are all wierdo's wanting acceptance form our fellow human beings, we can accept ourselves and in turn gain true confidence and appreciate other people.
Alix Sampson, B4
ReplyDeleteIn response to question one, posted by Ms. Rhodehouse, I say that they overlap. I think each of us are so insecure that you could never truly be happy without the approval of someone else. You can find yourself in a state of happiness, and yet it can all be shattered by one person. All they have to do is disapprove or make fun of your "happiness," and suddenly you question it. True happiness shouldn't be able to be questioned, and you should harbor no insecurities.
Alix Sampson B4 responding to Shelby Terrell on question No. 2:
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Shelby on the extent of the individual woman. Change is inevitable, but it is up to the women of the world to push it forward. Some women are content and almost wishing to be the property of another man, so that they BELONG to someone. Other women, are in a more independent mindset.
Women's rights have made progress, but only because a group of women pushed for it. Notice this is only in certain parts of the world. When there is no push forward, no one will do it for you. I am speaking of the male gender here more specifically. I don't honestly think that men would have just handed women their own suffrage with out their constant fight.
In conclusion: Women can still go forward, it is up to us individually to make it happen.
Q1: Your allegiance can never be fully committed to society or one’s self. The reason for this is that they conflict, but a balance should be the answer. Let me explain my thinking. Looking at the extremes what do you get?
ReplyDeleteFully committed to society means that you are only doing what is expected. There is nothing that changes in this life style day-in and day-out. When it becomes so predictable the mind starts to fade until there is nothing but an empty vessel of what was there before. The upside of all this is that there is a lower chance of laws being broken.
Happiness is nice, but broad and risky. Happiness when compared to society is when the issues are brought up. What is being done that brings happiness that is against society? Drugs, theft, violence, etc.? The main issue I’m getting at with happiness is that when it is a bad happiness that is wrong or hurts others should not be done. So a balance between the happiness and society, a subtly between both worlds is how one should live.
-Bryan Gardner B4
Devin Davis B2
ReplyDeleteResponding to question 1 (greater Allegiance)
I think more people try to get what one's self wants because in the long run they really want whats best for them! If a person contributes to society, it most likely won't hurt them in any way. I mean why would you want to do something that hurts you? I for sure wouldn't! Even if it may help society more by hurting you a little bit, most people would choose their own happiness but there are those select few who would help others first! :) Some people view it a different way to where society is more important and i guess it just goes from the people that you are dealing with because if it is professional then yes you will care what society thinks because you want to keep your job and such but if it is on the streets it will most likely be for yourself!
In response to question 3 (LIFE!)
YES! There are plenty of times where people OVER react! ha ha but thinking about things can be good and brings out many good things that wouldn't have come if everything was just forgotten or revenge was taken right away. It all just depends on how bad it is! How do you classify how bad it is? Well i guess that is up to you and whoever it deals with so i guess this means everyone will have to deal with however someone else takes it and tis means talk it out which means that thinking about it will happen! So i guess that is the solution! Think it out and don't act before you think! Let your emotions show, but in the right place and at the right time! Situations will come, and everything will work out eventually if it is meant to be! Do what you think is best and whatever feels right!
Peace out to that!
Oh and BAM! You just got ROASTED!!!!!! ha ha ha
ReplyDeleteAnswering the first question of alliance I think that it really depends on your lifestyle or the culture you live in and how you were raised. For example if you were to find some weird hippie on the street and asked them this question they would immediately say that you should have alliance to one's self. While on the other hand during the time period of the book we can see how tied to society the people are. We see many examples in the book of when Mr. Pontellier was more worried about what others would think of them if they took an action rather of the reasoning or what would happen because of an action. So it is hard to say if it was right for Mrs. Pontellier to choose her alliance with herself, because of the society she knew and was accustomed to. I personally believe that you should have alliance to yourself and forget society, but thats just me.
ReplyDelete-Kelly Oswald B4
In response to Sabree's statement I totally agree with her. It is so true that people today want to express their individuallity but are too afraid of what society will think of them. The first word that popped into my head was hypocrite, the people of today are really big hypocrites. I don't want to be rude or anything but it is true. When we read old books and learn about the society, we think that it is wrong and that no one should be treated that way, but when we see it in real life we don't take a second glance at it. Such is it with alliances. You often hear parents and adults telling children that they can express themselves anyway they want; but the momment the 'expressing' is seen as odd or strange to society they have to give it up. Perhaps someday we will be able to just accept anyone and everyone with alliances only to themselves.
ReplyDelete-Kelly Oswald B4
In response to the 2nd question about the role of women in society, I don't think it has in fact changed a lot. Utah is the perfect example of it because more women still stay at home to raise the children. While there is nothing wrong with that, that is the role that women have been placed in for centuries. There are career women now, but the majority still stay at home all day and it is because of religions and the customs of the areas people live in.
ReplyDelete3rd question: Sometimes people are overdramatic about certain situations, but at the same time, that situation may be the most important thing that happened to that person, and because we can't read their thoughts and experience their emotions, we will never understand the importance of the situation. It is easier to just move past events and "get real," but when a person feels exceedingly strong about something, there is power behind it. Normally, people don't show excessive emotion over every little thing that happens to them in life, but when they do, it can really help us to get to know them, or at least make us wonder what is the underlying issue or passion. Sometimes, getting real takes away our personalities and hopes for the future. Everyone needs to have a sense of passion about something in their life, otherwise nothing will get done and there won't be anything to look forward to in life.
~Austin Russon, B2
ReplyDeleteResponse to Question 1.
Society is always going to play a role in how people view their roles and how if affects themselves and their lives. Often people justify and mold themselves around everything society if offering and in a sense is giving themselves as a self sacrifice to society and it's upkeep. However, i do not believe this should be happening. Leave society as it is and go through your personal life without it affecting you to much. By simply going through life the way you are meant to, without worrying about being overly judged, the "upkeep of society" comes naturally and is more real not to mention better off. This is obviously set in line with semi-traditional/Modern standards in society and the assumption that they have not yet spiraled down into the eternal pit of despair.
True happiness comes from inside yourself and what you have, not what society deems you to have. I feel as if our society is merely concentrated on material possessions for happiness (hence the insane rate of debt in the country) and we have no self worth. All in all i say that society should play a minimal role in your life. Don't go so overboard as to go into exile and become Amish but keep it in check. They overlap but control and what points they do.
P.S. Sorry if this didn't make sense to anyone haha
In response to the first question, i will quote my religious leader (perhaps you've heard of him). In one of his "conferences to all of my and his faith, he said that "we should live in the world, but not of the world". this is saying that while you shouldn't become a hermit from society, you shouldn't feel obligated to partake of things you don't want to that society soetimes tries to convince us is ok.
ReplyDeleteWhat people think of you is not the only thing that matters, and we should not go overboard to please the world with the coolest clothes, or being able to text the fastest in class...etc. The people that live by the world's perfect standard will always be dissapointed, because, nobody is perfect.
~ Cody Hauver
P.S. if you don't know the man i quoted, he is speaking again this Sunday - i could point him out to you :D
-This question is difficult because of all the different situations that it could apply to. In Tess's case, it would be unrealistic for her to move on and not be emmotionally affected. In other cases however it seems stupid to ponder a situation too long. I think it is important to look at a complicated situation deeply and not just put it in the back of your mind, so that you can learn from your mistakes and grow from them.
ReplyDeleteDevin Davis in all his infinite wisdom said "but thinking about things can be good and brings out many good things that wouldn't have come if everything was just forgotten or revenge was taken right away."
ReplyDeleteI agree that we can not act through our emotions and that we need to think things out. However I think most people show their emotions only to get attention. You can think things out before you act without making a big show of it. People need to be controlled, but thoughtful.
-Ryan Curtis B2
Everyone's true allegiance is to the society. Sad but true. No matter how much we might say we don't care what others think, we are always trying harder to get the approval and attention of others. This especially happens in high school because that is all that teenagers want; to feel a sense of approval and belonging. Even after high school, college students are still trying to impress others. But once you get married you're completely satisfied with yourself right? Wrong! Look at all the young mothers in small neighborhoods. They are constantly trying to outdo each other with a bigger quilt, better baked bread, more "in style" home decorations. Dads are just as bad with their big screen tv's adn speedy cars. They may just claim these are their hobbies, but in reality they truly want other people's praise to make them happy. Men can't be happy with their fancy cars and boats unless they can rub it in someone else' face right?
ReplyDeleteNo matter what age we are, our happiness is dependent on society's opinion. I think we all would like to only care about our own happiness, but unless we learn to be completely satisfied with ourselves,we will still be seeking for approval to feed us our joy. Perhaps once we're really old we'll finally learn to be true to ourselves and be happy without seeking approval of others.
-Melinda Ahlstrom
I am responding to Melinda Alhstrom's comment about how everyones true alliegances are to society. I completly agree! Most people would never do the things they do if they weren't so obsessed with getting the approval of others. This happens especially in highschool like she said, and alot in relationships. People will do whatever it takes to make their peers feel happy and to feel accepted by them. People go as far as not conforming to society as a way to get around this problem but really its all a desperate show for more attention to try to stand out by fitting in. Maybe people will stop caring about what others think and one day and this world won't be so messed up!
~Austin Russon, B2
ReplyDeletePosting in Response to Cody Ha-Ha-Hauver's comments:
I completely agree with the comment that cody said and also the comments of this great spiritual leader. It is easy to get caught up in what the world wants you to see, be, and how to act but you must chose to stand above it. If we let society control our lives then there is nothing to work toward because societies expectations are all very low in many aspects. They lead to more pain and torment then they do happiness. as Queen once said,"Another one bites the dust." That is what society see happen to us.
Where is one's greater allegiance to the upholding of society or to the happiness of oneself? In other words, how important is society's approval on what you do in life?
ReplyDeleteEveryone says that they don't care what other people think... but in reality, they do. Everyone in some size, shape, or form cares what others think. As sad as it is, it is the truth. We shouldn't care what others think of us. It doesn't matter whether we have the nicest, most expensive clothes or whether we can drvie the fastest in the coolest car.
I do believe that it is possible to live your life without having society's approval. Life is so much better when you don't care what people think and you dare to get out of your comfort zone. Some of the best opportunities in life come from those times when we dare to take a chance and just not care. The only way that that could ever happen is if our society becomes a whole instead of groups based on race, religion, or popularity. Other than that, our society will go on being the judgemental group that it is.
-Kati Webster, b2
In response to Alix Sampson's comment...
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Alix's comment. We may finally reach the true happiness we have always desired, but that happiness can come crashing down the minute someone within our society mocks our happiness. I don't believe there is true happiness that lasts a lifetimes. Happiness is usually a momentary satisfaction. The reason for this is that people within our society get in the way of our happiness... even though it is OUR happiness. People unlawfully take things from us that do not belong to them. Sad, but true.
-Kati Webster, b2
P.S. I did not comment to Alix's post because she is my best friend, I really do agree with her! :)
In response to Austin Russon's response to my response to the first question - dude, your awesome! ha ha lol and all that jazz...
ReplyDeleteBut seriously, though, Austin said some good stuff about not sacrificing things to fit some sort of a perfect standard. it is true that society will always be there and will affect us (because we must live in this telestial world). However, as Austin said, we do not need to let it rule our lives. i hate to sound all religious and stuff (not really), but the world's styles and fashion trends are constantly changing, but certain things - family, friends, BOM - will stand the test of time, and that is what we should be focused on.
- this is the Big C, signing out again
In response to the 2nd Question: Women today are a lot more independent than they were years ago. Unlike Edna in the book when a woman asserts her independence it is not uncommon, in fact it is frowned upon if she does not. Today woman are meant to be much more career-oriented and focused on what they want than ever before in history. Historically speaking women were meant to be subservant to their husbands and to other male figures, they were required to stay home and look over the household, the servants, the children, and always be nurturing and helpful and passive to her fate. Now the role of a housewife and mother is a steadily declining occupation and the role of women is not as traditional as it once was and it keeps on growing into bigger and bigger differences.
ReplyDelete- Kirsten Watkins B4
I'm responding to the 3rd question.
ReplyDeleteI believe that there are two parts to this answer:
1) I think that when we have a task at hand, that we need to be realistic about the situation. If we over react to a problem through our emotions, it can cripple our ability to efficiently deal with our task/problem. When we are given the responsibility of a task, it is because we are assumed to have the strength to complete the task. We need to buckle down, complete the task, and move on to the next thing that we have to do in life.
2)The flip side of the coin, I believe is that it is necessary to deal with our situations using with a level of emotion that allows our creativity or ethical mind to show. We need to have a level of understanding of the situation in everything that we do!
In response to question 1:
ReplyDeleteI think that a person's main allegiance should and does go to the happiness of one's self. If a person isn't happy, then nothing else besides basic survival matters. Since upholding society isn't mandatory for basic survival, then upholding society isn't as important as being happy. Take Tarzan for instance. He didn't really have a social life (unless you count the gorilla society). He didn't really have a choice to have a social life, because he was totally isolated. We can see that Tarzan is a happy guy, because he swings through the trees, and this is a good indicator of happiness (I think). But...
If social approval is important for happiness, i.e., the only joy you find is in going to school, then they are equally important.
The question was addressed to me personally though, so I can say that social approval is a great indicator of happiness, because here in the US of A, society is a big part of our lives. Amen.
Bailey Loveless B4 in Response to Question #2:
ReplyDeleteIt is true that women politically has been liberated. We have earned the right to vote, own our property, wear what we want, and are generally considered individuals and not exactly the counterpart of another. However, I think the mindset of traditional gender roles is still the ideology of many. For instance, many people frown upon married working women, believing they should be in the home, raising children and taking care of the house. I think it is hard for women to have careers, especially ones where the women is in a leadership position, because of how criticized they are due to their gender. And its not just men who criticize working women but other females as well. As Ann Hathaway says in the Devil Wears Prada, "She's tough but if she were a man, nobody would notice anything except how great she is at her job."
Women are still associated as the housekeepers and cooks. Sewing, cooking, raising children, and any kind of homemaking is associated with women. My dad cooks usually in my home and it comes as a surprise to many people because they automatically assume my mother should be the one cooking meals.
I also think women are widely viewed as objects as well. For instance, people are so critical of women's bodies. Why do you think the amount of anorexic girls and men looking at pornography is so high? People complain and complain and complain that girls take forever to do their hair, and their make-up, and get dressed and blablablablabla. Well its because as women we have to compete with all the digitally altered images plastered all over media and if we cant meet those standards, we are called plain, ugly, and fat. The appearance of a women is continually being judged by society. And if someone says that is not true, I dare you to look up the satistics of husbands with pornography or even worse, fidelity problems. Right now, one of my neighbors is injecting herself with shots because her husband tells her she's fat when she's actually 5' 9" and weighs 115 pounds. It's disturbing and disgusting and sadly, becoming more and more common.
And besides that just look at the rap industry. No offense to anyone who listens to rap (I'm not dissing on it because I like some of it too) but the most common portrayl of women in this genre are they are objects who should look a certain way, act a certain way, and whose most important job is satisfying the male.
I know these statements don't apply to everyone. It's true there are some gentlemen left in the world. But in general, this is how the majority of society treats women. We are still considered objects who's job is to cook, clean, and satisfy others.
In response to Cody's comment,
ReplyDeleteI think that Cody(and the man that he quoted) were extremely right by saying that we need to retain our own opinion along with allowing ourselves to be efficient within society. You can't conform or you lose your ability to make a decision that is along the lines of your own standards.
In response to the first question I would like to put emphasis on the first part of the question (Where is one's greater allegiance to the upholding of society or to the happiness of oneself?) and not to the rewording. I would also like to point out that the definition of society is "an organized group of persons associated together for religious, benevolent, cultural, scientific, political, patriotic, or other purposes." -dictionary.com (1st definition of noun. The reason that I brought this definition into play is because I will use "others" in place of "society. This definition legitimizes this replacement.
ReplyDeleteI feel that one's ultimate allegiance should be to the upholding of society and not to their own happiness. When one decides to focus on the pursuit of their own happiness, their goal of becoming happy will not succeed. When you put yourself before others you will only find the happiness that you can bring to yourself. This is inferior to the happiness that others can bring you. Afterall, you are outnumbered.
When you are focused on the upholding of society you lose your selfishness. You are willing to sacrifice your own resources for benefit of others. When you care about others, others will care about you. This will bring you happiness.
Let's say that one has spent their whole life trying to make themself happy. When they are on their deathbed who will come to comfort them? No one will care about them. This is because the person on their deathbed only cared about what he/she thought of himself and didn't spend any effort on others happiness. Now they look back on their life and realize that they are not happy now so all their effort to make themself happy beforehand was a waste of time. Their happiness dies when they die.
When you affect others lives in a positive way your happiness will never die out. Remember that you found joy in bringing others joy. Their happiness lives on and so, in turn, does yours. This will be an ongoing cycle if they (or any other person you cared about in your life) put society before their own happiness.
In response to the third question, I think that there should be "moderation in all things" (haha- I sound just like Cody now!). There is always value in considering emotions, particularly in being sensitive to the people around us, but we cannot abandon our responsibilities in that endeavor. In other words, people should always be sensitive to others' feelings and their own to a certain degree, but it should be used to improve the future and not to get stuck in the past.
ReplyDelete~Natacha Lott B4
I think that people are too concerned with getting society's approval before they make up their mind. A person should do something because they want to, not because they feel like they have to, in order to get approval from their peers. Your allegience should be to what you want to do, and not to the standards that society has set. (Who in the heck even set those standards in the first place, and second of all, why do we think they're right??) People have to decide to be happy on their own, and not let their happiness depend on what someone else might think. In high school, people try so hard to be "normal" and fit in, but first you have to decide what your definition of normal is. Why not just be happy with who you are, and forget about getting society's approval?
ReplyDeleteI love how Austin Russon said, "True happiness comes from inside yourself and what you have, not what society deems you to have." I love that statement! Your happiness isn't based on what you have. Not everyone is a Bill Gates, Oprah (thank heavens...), or Warren Buffet. You have to make the most of your situation, and work for what you want. You can always choose to be perfectly happy with how much or little you may have.
ReplyDelete~Alexis Hales B2
One’s greater allegiance first lies with oneself then goes with society. Sometimes society is not perfect. Before you decide to uphold the things of society you must discover if it fits into what you believe to be right. Unfortunately, many people believe that they must place their greater allegiance with society. That must happen only after you know what you believe in your own heart. Yes, it may sound selfish to place your greater allegiance with the happiness of yourself, but you have to live with yourself and after awhile the things in society don’t really matter.
ReplyDeleteKatie Foster A4
I agree with what Melissa Perry said about how "some situations can be different but we are all living on emotional levels." Everyone is going through different trials and struggles. It reminded me of a billboard I saw recently. It said something like this: “You’d never hear, ‘snap out of it, it’s just diabetes.’ So why do some say that about depression?” Some people really have emotional problems and they can't just 'get over it.'
ReplyDeletethe previous comment was posted by Katie Foster :)
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Alexis Hales. People really just need to figure out who they are and what they believe is right before they go out and seek society's approval, or even better, not even care about society's approval. Unfortunately, that isn't the case very often. Individual happiness should be found by being yourself, not by living up to other people's standards. But, some people might find something to their "happiness" that every other person in their right mind finds bad, like murder as I mentioned before. So, you shouldn't base how you view yourself off of society's standards, but there are certain "codes of conduct" that society (meaning us) has put into place that really should be followed, even if it doesn't make us the happiest we think we could be.
ReplyDeleteI'm responding to Melissa Perry's comment, and I agree that it is definitely important to determine what makes someone so emotional. Every one has different strengths and different weaknesses, and everyone is more affected by some things than others are. Of course, just because something bothers you doesn't mean you have to feel sorry for yourself and give up trying. The best people work through their hardships and do the best they can to move on - it's just very hard to always do that, and so it is always important to evaluate people's reasons for emotions.
ReplyDeleteI think that the importance of society's approval on what you do in life depends a lot on how much importance you place on society's approval. Someone who is very worried about what other people think of them might not allow themselves to be happy doing what they want if society does not approve of it. Someone who cares very little about what other poeple think of them will place far less importance on the cultural restrictions placed on them by society. Personally I think it is good to have some balance in this area. You have to take other poeple into consideration when you make decisions, but if you place to much importance on that then you are hurting yourself and others.
ReplyDeleteAlex Rasmussen, A4
I totally agree with Alexis Hales, I think that she hit it right on the head when she said that people are way too concerned about getting society's approval. People should not have to be afraid to be themselves! I think that takes a lot of courage though, it is hard to put yourself out there for everyone to see and judge when you don't know how people are going to react.
ReplyDeleteAlex Rasmussen, A4
Responding to Jordan Bricco A4:
ReplyDeleteI agree that consequences and expectations that society has put in place may influence a person, but that does not mean they do what they do because of allegiance to the society. Rather, that is a fear of punishment. I think that no matter what the punishment or expectation, people will do whatever they believe will bring themselves the most happiness. If it makes them happy to stay out of jail or to simply do the right thing, they'll keep society's laws. However, I really don't believe that anybody is going to make a decision based solely on what is best for the society as a whole. People are selfish that way.
I agree with Katie Foster's comment that "Before you decide to uphold the things of society you must discover if it fits into what you believe to be right. Unfortunately, many people believe that they must place their greater allegiance with society. That must happen only after you know what you believe in your own heart." People shouldn't follow blindly into something becuase everybody else is doing it. We need to think for ourselves before we agree to engage in something that society does. I think it is important to find out what you want in life, otherwise you don't have an allegiance to yourself or society. In order to make society happy, you must first make yourself happy by doing what you want to do. Society tends to determine what we do with our lives, but that shouldn't and doesn't have to be the case. A little selfishness when it comes to doing what makes us happy could do some good in the world.
ReplyDeleteI'm responding to Melinda's comment on the approval of society. "No matter what age we are, our happiness is dependent on society's opinion." While some of the facts she pointed out hold true for some people, they are astoundingly wrong for others. Not everyone depends on society's approval. While acceptance and conformity seem to fit some's personality, it goes completely against others.
ReplyDeleteI know of many people who do not care a wit about good social standing. I know even more people who could care less about which wife in the neighborhood makes the best cake. People can find happiness, and many have, in little every day "miracles," if you will. Not everyone finds happiness in trophies, and those that do, in my opinion, don't find true happiness.
While society's acceptance may play a small part of some people's happiness, it is not the only way for someone to be happy. If that is the only thing that someone desires to achieve joy, than they cannot see past their own social circle to a whole world full of greater things.
Yvette Eggleston A4
Alyssa Hill A4
ReplyDeleteIwant to talk about ones allegiance to society vs allegiance to yourself. I think that if you do not care about yourself and are not satisfied with the person you are then your outlook on the way society sees you will always be negative. The way you feel about yourself reflects societies outlook on you. Therefore if you have a positive attitude towards you not only will you think that society sees you in a positive fashion but you will probably not care what they think, because in the end if your not happy with who you are why does it matter if anyone else is? Thats the problem with our world today, we care so much about what other people think that we kill ouselves to fit the "profile" that everyone thinks you should fit. When in reality if you were happy with who you are it radiates to other people and they see you as positive and confident. But allegiance should lie to yourself before others because you will have to live with who you are forever...because half the people you try to impress will probably fade out of your life.
For the 3rd quetion, I think we all can get a little too emotional, especially when we're in a time of total stress. But there's a certain point and time where we need to just get over it. I know that I really can get over emotional and not be able to stop it, but if you just give yourself a second to breathe and think things out, you can be rational with your emotions. But people can also be too non-emotional, it bugs people when they don't have any reaction to things and just don't seem to care. I think we all have certain examples in our life when we need to be emotional, and other times when we need to just hold on to it and get done with the day. I know from real life that its hard to get control over your emotions, but once you do, its a lot easier. We just can't let emotions control our lives, we all need to stop and think things through.
ReplyDeleteAlyssa Hill A4
ReplyDeleteI like what Danny and Melissa said about trying to figure out what makes you so emotional in life. I think it is easy for everyone to say..suck it up, be a man and rub some dirt on it!! When in reality somp people cope with things a little differently then some. Some of us can move on very quickly, but there is something in all of us that hits us deeply and emotion plays a big part in who we are as human beings. Without emotion life would be meaningless.. How can we experience joy without emotion. It all depends on how you look at life. To me emotion is classified as something that I am blessed to have. Although you may think people are big babies and cry about everything...maybe it's something deeper for them than for you... thats why this world is so unique, because we all experience life in a different way, with different emotion. So before we judge, I think we should take a look at what causes the emotion and be there for people who struggle with it because that is why we are here. We may not struggle with the same things others do so we can help them through the emotion and they can help us. It is all part of being human.
In response to Jared's comment-
ReplyDeleteI like your point Jared however I have to disagree with it. To prove my point I will use the same example that you used. Tarzan was content with life by just surviving. However when a more sophisticated life came into play (Jane) he wanted to take part in that life. He realized that he could be happier with society. People make up a society. Without Jane and the society that she brought he would still be content with life but not happy.
Yes Jane did return with Tarzan to his Jungle. But that doesn't mean they left society. They may have changed their society but didn't abandon it.
It could also be argued that Tarzan was in a society. One definition of society is, "a body of individuals living as members of a community". The monkeys or gorillas that were in Tarzan's life made up the society that he was a part of.
One can be content without society but not happy.
-Zach Hancock
I'm responding to Zach Hancock's comment. While I agree you should respond positively to those around you if you expect to be loved, what if the society and enviroment is corrupt or oppressive? Should you focus on yourself or society? Society can encompass large populations, even nations. Your statements most definitely are valid for smaller numbers. But what about on a larger scope?
ReplyDeleteFor instance, how women are treated in Saudi Arabia. That is a society/culture. Should they just let themselves be tossed around and never be able to express themselves because it makes society happy? Because it is the standards of society? People can be put to death for going against society in some cultures. Why should individuals satisfied with that kind of life? Or even what about our own Revolutionary War? If the colonists had just decided to remain loyal to England, even though they were being suppressed, we'd probably be under their regime. I'm sure the English gents and ladies didn't approve of their actions. Revolution and change never comes from those who aligned with the status quo of their society. Revolution comes from rebels.
-Bailey Loveless B4
I think that now days our allegiance is more to ourselves than society, however, society does play a role in this. Society tells us what is and is not socially acceptable, and that has a lot of effect on our actions and choices. We still want to feel happy, but we also want to please society.
ReplyDeleteBack in the time of Tess of the d'Urbervilles and Pride and Prejudice though, more people would be trying to please society than make themselves truly happy. Women especially, because they had less room for error. For example, women would marry men they didn't love or even like just for the approval of society. They still wanted to be happy, but society dictated this more than themselves.
--Hailey Cottle, A4
I'm responding to Bailey Loveless' comment about not being happy with society and rebels:
ReplyDeleteAMEN SISTER!
People should not have to sit back and be unhappy just because an oppressive society tells them to. If that were the case, us women would never have the right to vote. Change comes from progress and rebellion. It never came from everyone sitting exactly in their places complacently and quietly. It is the people who break the social norms to get what they want that change society.
--Hailey Cottle, A4
I agree with Melinda's original comment, to an extent. While the majority of people live their lives trying to gain the approval of society, there are a select few that have decided 100% not to care about what other people think. Edna from the book is one of these. She didn't care that she was supposed to "belong" to her husband or that society expected her to be the quiet and demure trophy wife; she did what she wanted. Although I don't completely agree with the lifestyle she chose (she had major mood changes and didn't really seem to know exactly what it was she was truly seeking after), I admire her courage in living life the way she wanted and not how everybody else wanted. Melinda also said "unless we learn to be completely satisfied with ourselves,we will still be seeking for approval to feed us our joy." I believe that Edna eventually did find satisfaction with herself and forsook the world to pursue her own happiness.
ReplyDeleteZack Hancock said, "When one decides to focus on the pursuit of their own happiness, their goal of becoming happy will not succeed. When you put yourself before others you will only find the happiness that you can bring to yourself. This is inferior to the happiness that others can bring you. Afterall, you are outnumbered." And I agree with him. People can only remain happy with satisfying themselves for so long. Eventually a void grows that they keep on trying to fill with material objects and flippant behavior and the void keeps on growing bigger and bigger. As much as we would like to assert our own independence and claim that we are distant from society as a whole, we are not. People are affected by their enviroments and the societies that they keep. If a person hangs out with a saint then eventually that perspon would become a saint. Likewise if they hang out with a sinner then they will be a sinner. Our personal allegience is nothing without our allegience to society. We cannot find true personal happiness as an island unto ourselves because we are influenced by the ideals of others. Allegience then must be given to society in order to fufill personal allegiences. Because as hard as we try to seperate ourselves from society the more it affects us. We can be alone and miserable or we can be a part of society and find happiness to a certain degree (one must still choose to be happy, even in the company of others).
ReplyDelete- Kirsten Watkins B4
I'm responding to question three
ReplyDeleteI think that to a certain extent it is okay for people to show there emotions when it comes at an appropriate time and place. However when people are complaining about everyday things it becomes a whole different story. Daily tasks are what shape people and creating these things such as work or school into a drama you are stretching yourself, and you are ultimatly creating more stress for yourself. If one just deals with their everday life then they will have less drama.
- Elisa Myers B4
I agree with what Austin Russon said, "True happiness comes from inside yourself and what you have, not what society deems you to have." I think people focus to much on what they think others think they should have, and not on what they think they should do or what you can afford even what you think is right. At a young age we are taught to be ourselves, but I think as we get older we loose sight of ourselves and become like those around us even if we don't agree with it deep down inside of ourselves.
ReplyDelete~Elisa Myers B4
In response to Bailey Loveless’s comment I believe she hit the nail on the head. Women have been subject to a stereotype so much that they have been expected to look a certain way, do certain things, and be like the women in the past. However, they should be treated equally, but sadly that doesn’t always happen. There are cases in the past where a woman was being paid less than a male co-worker who is at the same or lesser level than she is at. This should never happen a person should be paid off of the quality of their work and not their gender, race, or age.
ReplyDeleteThen on their appearance I really don’t know what to say because it is not something a single person can change, or not easily at least. It’s a pity though on how much the appearance of women means while at the same time there are guys who are hypocritical. Women should keep fighting for the self evident rights of life.
--Bryan Gardner B4
Your allegiance should be to the happiness of yourself. Who cares what society thinks. They're only going to be around for so long, so why not make yourself happy? It's better to be happy than to go with the flow and be depressed. When you're happy, everything goes better. Do what makes you happy, and don't do something just because society tells you that you have to.
ReplyDeleteI'm responding to what Melissa Perry said. She said that yes we are emotional, but being emotional is okay. What's important to one of us, may not be important to someone else. That's why I think it's okay to be emotional about things. It allows us to get what we have kept in our head out of us. If you keep things bottled up,then you're going to be a mess, and when it finally comes out, it's going to be ugly. Maybe only let it out around those you love, otherwise you won't receive good feedback. Emotion is good, it just depends on the people around and how much you let it upset you. Just keep your emotional level down, and don't let it boil over. Evaluate why someone is so emotional about something before you act. They may just need time, and don't tell them to get over it, it'll just make it worse.
ReplyDeleteI would like to talk about the first question, having to do with society and personal happiness. I think that is is more important to be happy in life, than making sure you are doing what society thinks is right. Life should be enjoyed. If you are doing something that makes you happy, don't stop just because it might be out of the social norm, or because it may be different from what the rest of the world thinks. As long as your actions aren't effecting other people negativly, you should do what makes you happy.
ReplyDeleteLisa Gerlach B2-the first question:)
ReplyDeleteI believe that one's allegiance should be in the TRUE happiness of oneself, not the physical happiness of one's self. However, how much of this so-called "Happiness of one's self" physically is from society's approval? In all honesty, how much of society is telling us to stay clean and true to our spouse? I know this isn't seminary, but, really, it's true.
I know that, when we really think about it, we all have a desire to do what's "right" in our mind morally, but, because of the world, we tend to be pushed around in our beliefs. What I really mean is, when you think about it, society determines what it is we consider morally right in the first place! So we can't just say, "where is one’s greater allegiance?" When, in all reality you cannot have one without the other. Society would not be without the individual and what they think would give them happiness, and the individual’s opinion on happiness would not be without society and what it thinks should be the individual’s happiness.
See if you can figure that out. Lol.
Lisa Gerlach, B2, responding to Shelby Terrell’s comment on women and their roles in society:
ReplyDeleteShelby said, “I feel that the woman’s role has changed to some extent, but the extent is up to each individual woman and how she conducts herself in society. If she allows herself to become property, that’s her weak sense of self and it’s her problem.”
I totally agree with this!!! Women, as a stereotype, are still seen as homemakers, but it is now not a WOW thing to see a woman who is the president/CEO of a company, and like many other people are bringing up, women CAN now vote, which is most certainly a step forward. However, women are really still seen as objects of desire, and slaves to their own looks and body, and this fact is seen today in pornography, trendy clothing fashions, and the lovely ‘if you’re not a size 0 you’re fat’ thoughts of the world.
Just as a side note, I think women are naturally more easily pushed around than men, and that’s why everyone really has zoned in on them. Granted, the ideal man’s image is pretty harsh too, but the billboards towards them are not usually geared towards how their body should look, but more how their “woman” should look and what they ‘deserve.’ I say this only because it’s true. The way that society sees the “ideal” women today really is disgusting in by opinion.
Back in Kate Chopin’s time, women were seen as property, and you were either a homemaker or some sort of prostitute, under society’s measuring stick. Things have changed a little, but not much. As Shelby said, I believe it is up to the individual woman to decide what she is going to follow; her own individual happiness (the true happiness) or the world’s happiness, which goes back to question number one.
In response to Kyle P, he said "I believe it is necessary to deal with our situations [in life] using a level of emotion that allows our creativity or ethical mind to show." I agree that it is okay to show emotion in the things you are doing in life. It helps determine how much you care about a situation. Although, I don't think it is okay to get emotional about every little thing that happens in life. People should deal with everyday situations with a good and positive attitude. That way, more things will get accomplished, and you will ultimately be happier.
ReplyDeleteIf society does not give the opportunity for the pursuit of happiness, then that society was not made for the people. In this case, we need to do what our forefathers did for us, and rid ourselves of this tyrannous rein. However, if society does give us the opportunity to become happy, we need to protect it, and it becomes more important, to keep this free as a whole. So if that means going to war to protect it; then it is important enough to me to sacrifice all of my future happiness to protect the happiness of others.
ReplyDeleteSociety’s approval however does not matter. If something makes you happy, but it is against the social norms, be yourself. Conforming to keep others happy, is a waste of originality. Each person can bring their, own unique attribution to a society. If we are all focused on being "normal" we will all end up the same, and then life will have no value. One person could die, and it would not change the world one bit. Because everyone is exactly like that person that just died. Uniqueness gives life a reason. Conformity is a form of death.
Christian Rogowski A4
ReplyDeleteOk here I go, first of all please excuse me about my opinions, I'll most likely state them as fact, but realize that they are all opinions and I'm completely open to all of yours. :) Ok, so first of all I'm really sick of hearing about how women are so predjudiced against all of the time, and how terribly sexist all men are and stuff,because honestly, it's a load of frog legs. Yes, it's true, women used to be viewed as less important then men and maybe seen as the reflection their husband, but I really don't believe it's near as bad as many people pump it up to be, and here's why.
In today's society, if somebody (mainly a woman) stands up for women's rights, she's a femminist and doing a great and historic thing. On the flip side, if somebody (mainly men) stands up for men's rights, he's a sexist jerk who's trying to enslave women. In essence they're both trying to achieve the same thing, yet one is discriminatied against, and one is venerated. So maybe it's not women who are discriminated against, obviously contrary to popular belief, but, think about it will ya?
Christian Rogowski A4
ReplyDeleteI really like Kelly Oswald's response to the first question and I completely agree with it. I personally believe that you should do what feels right to you. If you have a belief, then live it, and it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks about you or what you do. The problem always comes when people become concerned with appealing to other people and trying to make them happy, because generally, if you're trying to appeal to someone, you adopt their beliefs, no matter how crazy and unfitting for you they are. Does that make sense? Live for yourself and don't worry about trying to make others happy with you. If you're happy with yourself, then that's all that matters.
Growing up in a environment such as Lehi has shrouded me in protection. I have never had to worry about things in life that others would who lived in say, Salt Lake. Unfortunately, this has made me become too unreal about life, overly optimistic. Recently I’ve applied for colleges thinking that I had no problem attending because I thought I’ve been a great student and any school would be willing to accept me. I finally found the school I wanted to go to, Westminster. It turns out that my tuition would be $24,000. It was when I found this out that it hit me. Life isn’t fair and we cannot always get what we want. Unlike high school where there is constant drama and everyone is overly emotion about, well, everything; I am getting thrown into the real world where high school doesn’t even matter.
ReplyDeleteSo, my answer to this question would be yes, I do think that we are much to emotional bout life and that we need to be brought back down to earth. We can only live in our fantasy lands for so long until we are forced into society as adults. Life isn’t fair and we must get used to that fact. I have found that life isn’t one happy environment like Lehi, it’s full of troubles and worries that we need to directly deal with. When those good things come around, take them in open arms but don’t expect them to keep coming. I may sound pessimistic but honestly, I’m just being realistic. We need to learn to get real and move on with our lives to create a the best possible future we can for ourselves.
-Colten Strickland (A4)
Loni Miramon B4
ReplyDeleteI'm responding to the first question.
I believe that one's greater allegiance is to do what makes yourself happy. Forget society and what they think...after all, society is full of cliques, trends, hypocracy, negative and unrealistic images, and far-stetched ideas of what life should be like. In my own personal beliefs, some ides of society do not always agree with my religious beliefs, my values, or my perception of the purpose of life. Society is filled with a lot of (but not all) negative pressures. While there are some wholesome values (depending on the person) like marriage, it should be done for the sake of one's happiness, not to uphold the society-expected standard. Marry who YOU like, marry how YOU like,have the job YOU want, take the path YOU want. One of our rights here on this earth, in this country, is agency. So whatever you're doing, do it to physically, emotionally, and spiritually fulfill you. If society is telling you to do one thing (such as dress a certain way, watch certain movies) and you disagree because of what you believe and what you know will truly make you happy, then do what you want; make the decision that will profit you most, not society.
I am responding to this statement of Kjirsten's
ReplyDelete"People are affected by their enviroments and the societies that they keep." -Kjirsten Watkins
This is a common misconception. Society is not the building blocks of our lives, our lives are the building blocks of society. One man can impact a society dramatically, for good or for bad. These people reject the social expectations, and attack assumptions. Some examples of such people are Ghandi, Winston Churchill and (Cody will give me props on this one) Joseph Smith. Many others have also had significant effects on society, whether just in their communities, or on the entire world. If society decides what we become, Why aren't we all the same?
I agree with what Brianna Holmstead had to say. I think that our personal happiness intertwines with society. The moment we are born we are thrown into the hands of society. But what is society? It’s merely the world we, as humans on this earth, have created. Whether it is morals, ideals or beliefs, we have created it and we are now living in it. What it takes for us to be happy is directly shaped by society. This is why we have different views in different environments scattered throughout the world. The norms for Utah are definitely not the same norms as New York. Therefore, we have different concepts of what personal happiness actually is because our views on life are different i.e. a rated R movie is more acceptable in New York than it is here thus the majority of Utah finds a rated R movie to go against personal happiness while those from New York could find it to comply with their personal happiness. It is all intertwined. But what do I know, I could be contrastricken! =)
ReplyDelete-Colten Strickland
I'm responding to Colten Strickland's blog...
ReplyDeleteI agree...I think that especially growing up in Lehi, Utah we are sheltered. While we've learned a lot of great qualities that we can use is life, will they be able this withstand when we are thrown into a world of diversity and oppisite opions? I think that diversity and experiences not normal to the clique "Lehi life" are one of the greatest ways to prepare and develope your own opinions standards, and defense.
While life in Lehi may be one way, I think that high school is generally the same everywhere. Students get a falsified image of life, what they think is important, and they get way to caught up in the drama that surrounds them in their seemingly "complex", but their actual sheltered and nurtured lives. As high school students we haven't experienced much of the real world yet. That's why it is important to look ahead to what's really important and not get caught up in the complicated drama that surrounds us. Don't let unreal ideas shock us...prepare for the real thing.
~Loni Miramon B4
Aimee Wright B4
ReplyDeleteI am responding to question #3.
I personally think that too many people live on all emotion and go from instance to instance in their lives. Yes, bad things happen. Yes it's perfectly normal and beneficial to have and use emotion in how you live life, but there's a point where it becomes too much. When the drama that can be found in life is all you focus on or talk about, how is anything going to get done? I think that MOST of the time people need to simply take a step back and look at their situation from the outside rather than try to see it while making sense of whatever emotions they feel at the time.
However I feel this is a point of view that should be reserved for ones self rather than to be placed onto others. For example if your friend is going through a very emotional break up and not taking the step back to simplify their view of the situation it is not your place to tell them to do so. When it comes to others and their situations it's best to accept they're having a hard time and give support. After all, you don't know all of the exact circumstances that person is having to deal with. You are also somewhat oblivious to how it would be to go through the break up in their shoes.
Live is EXTREMELY "unfair" in the respect that it happens. Life is not equal for any of us. I personally know many people who have gone through unimaginable trials and difficulties to get to where they are today. Those that I have found I hold the most respect for are those who never let circumstances keep them down. They may have been in the worst conditions and felt there was no way out, but they continued on to get past it. They had a goal to reach for themselves and did everything in their power to get there. I think this much passion and effort should be put into life by everyone, if this were the case then no one would be held down in their life. After all, the only true limits we have are those we place on ourselves.
So to sum up my opinion on this, I think it's good to keep emotion in your life, but still remain objective and get things done while not trying to force others to see the same way. (:
I am responding to this statement in Nathan's response to Kjirsten's post:
ReplyDelete"Society is not the building blocks of our lives, our lives are the building blocks of society."
I agree, to an extent. Without our lives, society wouldn't exist, let alone be the way it is today. However I believe that society does have a great impact on our lives and who we become. For instance, look at this generation compared to that of our grandparents. Today we live in a society that has become more crude, violent, selfish, lazy, and vulgar than any society before. We rely on technology to get anything done. Our work ethic isn't what it was in the day of our ancestors. I would say we (as teens in general) have been sheltered from many different scenarios where circumstance dictates how we live. We can be anything we want to be. The people living in any third world countries don't have the same privileges. If one teen from our school were compared with one from say Africa, the differences would be many.
So yes, we shape our society, but society also shapes us as people and individuals.
That was Aimee again. (:
ReplyDelete-Aimee Wright B4
I am responding to what Bailey Loveless said on March 30, 2009 at 1:06 PM
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure I am walking off a plank into shark infested waters by challenging this one, However, left unchallenged, I believe my gender will have suffered an undeserved blow. While it is true that many males still feel that they are superior to women, it is not true that our gender determines and limits the woman's role in society.
I would like to explain this point further, by asking a question. How does anything get changed? The simple answer is that it is challenged. We might still think that the universe rotates around the earth, that the earth is flat, and if we sail too far we will fall off the edge, and wind up as serpent food, except that these assumptions were challenged. You women--if you even want to reject the role of housemaker--would need to declare this, and make it impossible for the men to ignore. How did you gain suffrage rights? You fought for them. How did you get equal treatment in the workplace rights? You fought for those. There is a pattern here, if you want something to change, you need to fight for it.
However, back to a side note I left in there. I do not believe that most women want what you are talking about, freedom from the "housemaking". My mother for instance, is a stay-at-home-mom, she loves being able to be there for us, being able to bake us cookies after school, and help us with our homework. But something you have to understand about my mom, she is extremely intelligent. She has a Bachellors degree in Mechanical Engineering by about age 22. (Which is still quite a hard field for women to get into.) She had several job offers from different companies offering a large starting salary for her to come and work for them. However much she loved engineering, she decided to make a home for us. If you ask her, she will never say she regrets that. Some things are more important than money and status.
On the other hand, some married women do work, and this is also an honorable thing to do. To help provide for a family is a respectable thing to do. They want better for their kids so they enter the work force, and etch out a living. No one has the right to be critical of someone supporting their family.
Women can change their role in society, if they fight for it. It doesn't seem fair to have to fight for something that should belong to you, but if it is not worth fighting for, it's not worth having.
In respnse to Jenna.....
ReplyDeleteI totally agree! I think that we have grown so accustomed to the get now, get fast, get whatever we want lifestyle, that people have lost some of their work ethic. People have relied so heavily on the new technology, and the idea that there will always be something bigger and better, that it is hard for us to enjoy something we have earned. We have forgotten how to appreciate things we have worked for, and forgotten how to work for things!
Whitney Page
A4
To some degree society’s approval is necessary, because we have been shaped by society we naturally want others to think well of us, we want to fit in. There are few individuals who genuinely do not care what others think of them; and even then there will always be one person whose opinion matters to them. Society will always play a role in what we do in life because society is all we know. To completely break free from societies approval you would have to live on your own away from everything familiar and then determine what you would like out of life. Even when Edna was doing her own thing she was still seeking approval from herself and other characters like Madame R. Edna didn’t want to go to her house when Mme R was sick but she went anyways because that is what was expected. One of my favorite quotes about being yourself comes from Dr. Suess, “Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.”
ReplyDelete-Kenzie B. B4
McKenzie Bird B4 responding to Shelby Terrell- B2 She said "I feel that the womans role has changed to some extent, but the extent is up to each individual woman and how she conducts herself in society. If she allows herself to become property.. thats her weak sense of self and its her problem. And men should not take advantage of that." I completely agree with this. Women shape their own role and influence others thoughts of them. If they carry themselves with confidence and don't rely on a man's (or anyone's) opinion of them, if they have their own self worth, they won't be treated as property. I also believe that we as women need to be prepared to stand up for what we want.
ReplyDeleteDevin Davis B2
ReplyDeleteIn response to Kyle P's Comment
Kyle said "We need to be realistic about the situation. If we over react to a problem through our emotions, it can cripple our ability to efficiently deal with our task/problem." I agree with this because if we take the situation unrealistically then we are not going to get a realistically helpful or productive outcome. Emotions can change a situation and don't allow us to get the full and complete outcome that we would have actually wanted! Calm down and don't let emotions play that much of a factor in what we do!
Peace out to that!
Courtney Tew B4
ReplyDeleteI think people focus on what others (society) think way too much. So many people would make different decisions if they weren't afraid of what people would think of them. There are a lot of people that, I believe, don't show their true emotions just because they're afraid, but I think it is way more important to be happy than to make society happy. What do we live for? Ultimately it will not matter what "the world" thinks of you as long as you were doing good. If the world is constantly doing a downward spiral, than the norm is constantly changing and becoming worse. If we make our decisions based on society then we are becoming worse too.
I completely agree with Melissa Trotter. We just need to be happy. We need to do the things we really want to as long as we're being a good person.
ReplyDeleteIn Response to Nate Hancock, I actually for the most part agree with you. I have nothing against those women who wish to stay at home and raise children. Bearing and nurturing children is a beautiful thing. However, I am against those who stereotype women into the goody housewife role and think that it is all they are good for. I actually find it insulting because in a way, it is degrading the power women have as wifes and mothers and I feel disrespectful to our ability to procreate. If we can bear childbirth, I'm sure we can work in an office just as efficiently (and actually quite easily).
ReplyDeleteI also do think change does come challenging and was not suggesting otherwise. If you notice, I posted a response to another question stating, "Revolution comes from rebels." In the words of Eleanor Roosevelt, "Well-behaved women never made history." I totally agree that if women want equality, it is the women who are going to have to lead the battle and not settle for less. But I think you will agree that change can not be done with our male counterpart as well because it affects everyone, not just women. Besides that men and women balance each other out. Neither would exist without the other and nothing really can be done without the aide of the other.
-Bailey Loveless
PS I was not attacking the males. If you noticed I wrote that men are not the only ones criticizing, but other females as well.
PSS And women and their pyschology on appearance is kind of men's fault because well most of the female pop. is still heterosexual and we dont make ourselves pretty for other girls because duh that's wierd lol. And appearance does matter to males therefore we females have to worry about it but let's just shove it because if we get into a debate I'll have to bring in biology and genetics and all sorts of stuff about natural selection from AP Biology and if that happens it'll be annoying
ReplyDeleteI agree with Courtney, we shouldn't care what other people think of how we react! We should be able to express our feelings on any topic however we want. We definitely shouldn't let that change our standards and what we're comfortable with. Also, to go along with Melissa Trotter's comment; we should do what makes us happy! Other people shouldn't have an impact on what we do, say, or feel; same as our emotions, if we can express our emotions without affecting others, we should! And we all know if we stand up for what's right there's always someone to follow that was too scared to lead!
ReplyDeleteIn response to Angel's comment on question 3, I completely agree with her. We all do have times in our lives where we seriously need to take a chill pill and/or scream into a pillow so we can get through the day, but there are also times when we need to break down, be emotional, and let the waters flow. We can all be a little too overemotional. Also, I agree that almost no matter what emotions we are feeling, there is a way to get through our decisions rationally, if we take the time to relax and focus.
ReplyDeleteI also really liked how Angel brought up the point that “People can also be too non-emotional,” that “they don't have any reaction to things and just don't seem to care.” This irks me as well, and although I can understand that we all have our own levels of emotion, people can be too callused at times. For instance, when my cousin's baby was beaten almost to death by it's mother's boyfriend, the mom didn't show any grief or stress at all-not even a tear, even when the 7-month-old nearly died three times, both on the way to and in Primary Children's Hospital, nor when he was blind and paralyzed for 5 days, nor when he had to have over half of his skull removed and replaced with metal plates. Even to this day, she still blows it off like it was nothing, even though he has to routinely go in and have his metal skull removed and cleaned, has to wear a helmet for protection, and is a year behind in his speech and motor functions. To me, her behavior is a complete lack of proper, rational emotion; your child almost died!!!!! Shed some tears woman!!!! Gah!!! To quote Angel, “I think we all have certain examples in our life when we need to be emotional.”
How would u describe Mr. Potellier as Compassionate, Self- centered,conscientious, inattentive or irresponsible??
ReplyDelete