As we've been discussing poetry in class, and my experience with students in the past, I often hear it said that poetry doesn't have meaning, that we're just "reading into it." It's a given that poetry is more obscure than most prose, as the language itself is set up to hint at and symbolize an emotion, thought, or purpose. By its very nature, it often takes a closer reading to understand.
Here's my question then. Why is poetry such an important part of our study of literature? Do you think that because it is difficult at times, that it is too much for an AP literature course? How do you feel about poetry?
(Respond to the question in 4-5 sentences for 5 points, and another 5 points for responding to one other student. This post will close for points Sunday, 1/31 at midnight!)
I'll answer the last question first. I love poetry, especially when I can understand it, but sometimes I wonder if we analyze it too much. How much of what we read into the poems was actually intended by the author? I think tearing it apart kind of destroys the beauty of it, too, in a way, like reducing the poem to mathematical rhythms and word choice rather than the art that it is. I mean, it's not like we sit and pick apart a painter's brushstrokes to see what they intended the viewer to feel...
ReplyDeleteAnalyzing poetry is good for an AP Lit course. It is hard at times, but it's a great way to develop the skill of tearing a piece apart, looking at it in new ways and getting a deeper meaning out of it. I think it seems so hard to us because it requires being in a certain mindset, and things are often stated indirectly, requiring us to make assumptions and mental leaps that other texts may not.
The question "how do you feel about poetry" is probably not the question that should be asked if we want to keep the conversation pleasant. While my relationship with poetry isn't exactly amiable, I don't doubt for a minute that it's incredibly important to know how to analyze poetry. I have said that since the majority of poets were high when they wrote their poetry, we shouldn't have to understand what they meant because it's like being high. If I step back and look at the value of critically thinking about the poems themselves (instead of critically analyzing the poet's deeply-intrenched personal issues), it's not difficult to see how it can expand our understanding of other literature - literature I actually like!
ReplyDeleteAs for whether or not it's too difficult for an AP Literature class... At the beginning of the school year, I was surprised by how much reading we had to do. Then one day it hit me: AP Literature. What did I think we were going to do in this class? Learn to weave baskets? And the same goes with poetry. Poetry is an important part of literature. Any literature class has to cover poetry to some extent. If we wanted easy, we would have taken a different class.
And there's my two-cents worth.
Karissa thinks...
ReplyDeleteI think that why we study poetry is because poetry is all around us. In movies and mostly in our music. By studing poetry and learning how to interpet poems and find their deeper meaning we lean to use a different part of our brain. We also learn how to look at things differently.
Is poertry to hard for AP kids? I don't think so. I know that we are capable of doing it and using it, the hard part comes when your first learning it. Once you've had a chance to tear a poem apart and have a chance to do it I think it becomes easier, and sometimes enjoyable. When poetry gets hard is when you can't understand the poem itself, or you don't think you get it, so you think its hard. But some poems you just need to work on or look at it differently, and sometimes get help. So I think that AP students can do this, and that it gets easier through practice and a little guidance.
Now for how I feel about poetry. I wasn't thrilled about poetry in the beginning. I thought it was just a jummble of things put together and you had to find the hardest things in the poem and have to understand them. But since we have done poems as a class and on our own I kind of like poems. I most of the time can at least understand what the authour is talking about. I do have to read it about 12 times before I even start to understand them but its fun to go through and see what it is that you see. Then talk to others and see what they thought it ment. You can get some interesting reposes depending on the poem and who is interpeting it. I mostly like poems with a story or a message that I can relate to. And that is my oppinion on poetry.
KT Says...
ReplyDeleteI love poetry. I never knew you could get so much out of just a few lines. I struggle with communicating how I feel and some of the poems we've read just spell it out for me almost exactly. Poetry is important because it allows people to expand their capacity to express themselves. I agree that you can read too much into a poem and end up with something that the author never intended, but in the long run does that really matter? The poem made you stop and think which is an accomplishment in and of itself. Personally, I love the feeling where everything just clicks into place and you get the meaning of the poem, but that's not all you can find in a poem. It's the connections you make when you read the poem that are the most satisfactory. Poetry, like most literature, helps remind us what we think, that we have an opinion and vast stores of experiences to draw upon to try and understand a breif arrangment of words on a piece of paper.
Of course poetry is important to AP literature. Of course it's hard. So what? You get more out of difficult things. If you never did anything hard you would never advance. Okay, a less vague reason is that poems are like miniature books. Since they are so short you can analyze the heck out of them no problem. This is good practice for analyzing larger works- like books for example... hmmm... that might be important.
Oooh KT I like what you said about poems being miniature books! It's so true. :D
ReplyDeleteThis is Ms. R...
ReplyDeleteLove the conversation so far. You guys are the best! I feel like I get to hear more from you in this way. :)
Boss..
ReplyDeleteYa know.. Some poetry frusturates me so much to the point where I could rip it up. I'm a person who is all about simplicity, and if I do say or understand something with deep meaning, it's a really big deal to me. Poetry is definately very different today compared to the 18th century. We find most poetry in musical lyrics. Many people rag on poetry, without realizing that we listen to it every single day. And Ashley. You are so right. We often try to analyze poetry too much, sometimes making ourselves go bonkers! I love your "paintbrush' analogy. We need to simplify and see the beauty!
KT
ReplyDeleteI am in accordance with Karrissa, at first I wasn't particularly thrilled either but I've learned to love it. Never knew what I was missing. Now, will I continue to read and analyze poetry- this is the real question.
Rachel thinks...
ReplyDeletehmmmm poetry. I am somewhat indifferent about the subject. It is definitly not my most pleasurable activity to do in the world, but neither do I dislike it. Analyzing poetry gives me an opprotunity to broaden my mind and stretch its creativity, but then again, it can also give me huge brain cramps. Poetry tends to make me over think sometimes. It seems like im on the right track, but then find out it was completely different and not so indepth, like the poem The Red Wheel Borrow; that was crazy. But I can enjoy poetry.
The real question for me is, Do I enjoy WRITING poetry? And the answer is HECK NO!!!
Thanks Boss! :) It's true that poetry is all around us, especially in music. So why does our society seem to have forgotten its existence? Do we just get overexposed to lyrics and think that's good enough, or are we just getting lazy?
ReplyDeleteAmanda Robertson
ReplyDeleteI think we need to study poetry because there are so many meanings in poetry and if you learn to analyze poems and find those meanings it can give you a different perspective on things around you and even a different view on life in general.
Yes analyzing poetry is hard but we signed up for a hard class and I don't think poetry is too hard for an AP course. There are lots of things that are hard to do but once you learn how to do it and understand why you're doing it it really isn't that hard and some people might even think it's fun.
I love reading poetry and analyzing it a little bit to get the meaning but I don't like ripping it apart completely because to me that makes the poem more complicated and less enjoyable.
AP Amaya
ReplyDeletehaha oh my i love this conversation. ha its like facebook but in literature. ha ms. Rhodehouse i still need to make you our friendship bracelet! ha :)
AP Amaya
ReplyDeletei personally love peotry, because you pretty much compare it to art. you can give it your own meaning, and there is no limit in what you want to write about ex:"Women,wine,and Snuff" by John Keats. I think poetry is an important study of literature, because in the 18th century they used a difficult type of writing that can say one thing but mean another. It is the same thing with peotry, you have to learn to compare the words to figure out what it is actually saying.
Just because it is difficult, it dosent mean it shouldnt be taught in AP lit. In fact i actuatlly like it that we get so deep into learning it because it gives the student the chance to express themselves and take out the frustaration on the poetry which personally i always do. It is also a good way of understanding life because even though sometimes we dont relize it, we are surronded by poetry everywhere.
I totally agree with everything KT is saying, it might be difficult but those 3 lines of frustaration in a poem have so much meaning in it if you just take the time to analyze it. Sure it is hard, but hey life is hard and we keep going. So i think a little poem wont hurt us, it will just give us a wider look at life itself.
Amanda Robertson
ReplyDeleteI agree with Amaya that you can write about anything you want in poetry. It makes it a lot easier when you can just write about something that you feel or something that is important to you rather than a subject that someone else wants you to write about.
Ammon Ostler
ReplyDeleteI think that poetry is an important part of studying literature. Many great authors of the past wrote poetry, such as William Shakespeare. However there are not as many poetry writers today.
For the AP course I son't think involving poetry makes it too difficult. Personally I feel you can express yourself to others with poetry and still feel comfortable. When I take time to work on poetry it is usually worth the while.
Tyler Wakamatsu
ReplyDeletewell said ammon =)
Tyler Wakamatsu
ReplyDeleteWhen I think of Poetry, I tend to think of some sappy, love letter type of poetry, but that isn't the only aspect of poetry out there. I think that we, as students, when we hear that we are doing a poetry section, we freak out. We also like.... over complicate and over evaluate poetry. I actually enjoy poetry. This year, poetry has helped me to understand literature, and I personally am greatful for the poetry assignments.
Laken:
ReplyDeleteI think that poetry is an important part of studying literature because it is a little bit harder, and it helps with some other concepts in regular novels and such. I think that poetry is kind of hard, but I don't think that it is too hard for an AP Literature course. We need to know poetry to prepare for college, and AP classes are meant to prepare us for college. Poetry is a skill that we need to know. I like poetry most of the time because, even though it is frustrating, it is a lot of fun, it's different from a lot of things, and it doesn't have really any rules.
Laken:
ReplyDeleteI agree with what KT says about over-analyzing and reading too much into a poem, but that it doesn't reall matter. I think most poets have to know that their poems are going to get misread, unless they have a side-by-side guide that tells exactly what they are thinking. That's the fun thing about poetry is that it means different things to different people
I think that poetry is a great way of expressing a story, or feelings in a deep way. By deep I mean that poetry rhymes for a reason. It is easier to remember, and will stick with you much longer than, for example, an essay will. I don't think that poetry is too much of a trial for an AP class. It's called "Advanced Placement" for a reason. Yes, poetry can be hard sometimes, but if you have a good teacher (like Ms. Rhodehouse ;) ), you will learn to love poetry in all of it's forms. Personally, I love poetry. I think that it is a great way to express your thoughts and feelings. I love being able to read story-poems, like the Lady of Shalott....and also being able to delve deep into an author's mind with poems such as "Ode on a Grecian Urn". I think that poetry is great fun, and I love that you can be as artistic (or drugged) as you would like, and call whatever it is that you wrote a work of art.
ReplyDeleteOk...first of all...Ashleigh!! Way to go on being the first post! :) lol
ReplyDeleteSecond, and on a more serious note...I agree with "Boss" on the point that some of these poems make me want to tear them to shreads. They can be SO frusterating...especially the really obscure ones...like that wheelbarrow one...I really wanted to analize the heck out of it...and it turned out to be reallys simple...and with other poems, it's just the other way around. If you don't look deep enough, you can miss SO MUCH!!
This is Josh Freeman
ReplyDeleteI think that poetry is used to give more meaning in fewer words than regular prose. Poetry does this by the rhyme scheme and also because it has to state a whole story or theme with as few words as possible. Writing poetry makes it so that you have to be smart and be able to use the language very well in order to make sense. I think that poetry should be part of the ap lit course. I think this because poetry is a big part of writing. Understanding poetry helps students to become better writers. Although poetry can be hard I like the feeling of accomplishment I get when I finally understand and realize what a poem is saying.
I agree with both becca and boss in that poetry is cool, but I also believe that if you don't delve deep enough into poetry it is lame.
Ammon Ostler
ReplyDeleteI agree with Tyler W. when he says that the love poetry is not the only aspect of poetry. I appreciate poetry and think it is more interesting than I used to because of this. I especially like war poetry from writers who were influenced by different times of war. An example is Siegfried Sassoon.
Miranda says
ReplyDeleteI love poetry. That being said, I don't particularly like analyzing poetry. Why can't we just let it be art without ripping it to shreds? I think it really is an art form, and that is one of the reasons we should at least be exposed to it in AP Literature. Although poetry on its own is not huge in our culture right now, back in the good old days it was at least as important as novels were, if not more so.
I think that we can overanalyze poetry and come up with meanings that the author never intended to put in the poem. We can't really know what many of them meant. I think that everyone interprets poems differently. Each interpretation is both correct and incorrect--correct in that that's what YOU get out of it, and incorrect in that nobody really knows what the author meant.
I also agree with whoever said it (I would check but I'm too lazy to scroll to the top of the page) about how a lot of poets were on drugs when they wrote their poems and so we shouldn't have to understand what they meant unless we want to get high. With a poem like Kubla Khan, there doesn't have to be some huge cool meaning. Let's face it, Coleridge was just on an opium trip. There's most likely no earth-shattering revelation in that poem, or an insight into the human psyche that will make world peace possible. He was just seeing things because he was high and wrote about it. End of story.
ReplyDeleteAnd even with other poetry that's not so drug induced, we can't understand what the poet meant unless we go back in time to the exact moment they wrote the poem and ask them what they're thinking. Which is probably not going to happen. We can speculate on a poem's meaning, but there's no one "correct" interpretation.
--Miranda
Jared-
ReplyDeleteWeren't you all just waiting for me? I mean, this is like an online fish bowl. I'm so excited. Now, for the question: Why is Poetry important?
I'll answer that by asking this. What makes music so important to us? It is, after all, just words spoken to a rythm and beat. Almost identical to poetry. Every word we say has a tone, a pitch, a measure. You could write out every conversation on a scale if you wanted to. It wouldn't end up very pretty. It would not have a steady rythm, no repetition, no overtone, it wouldn't even be in a key. So why does addind a rythm, tone, and key suddenly make it something we are willing to endorse, crave, revolve our lives around?
The reason is that people love order. People love organization. Regardless of what period of time, chaos has always been associated with badness and evil, while order and peace hase been good and pure. Songs are merely an organized selection of what can be found in chaotic for all around us. It is the order we love.
Poetry is no different. The only reason that poetry ever started to be important was because it was controlled. Speech is so varying and so vast that the scale of its chaos is almost unfathomable. It has no rules, no limits, no standards. It is everything at once. Not to say there is anything wrong with that, it has many advantages. However, what this brought was a contrast. Because normal speech had no order, when literature was introduced that had constant order, constant organization even to the point of the words ending in the same sounds, it was imediately something that intrigued man. We had to have it.
Personally, and most of you probably expected me to say something like this eventually, I think that order is no reason to make something so trivial seem so highly esteemed. So what if it is ordered? It's everything that we use everyday just put to a beat. Poets did absolutely nothing special by writing poetry. They just appealed to the misguided love of order that is inherent in man's nature.
There is absolutely nothing special about poetry. Being hard to write does not make it important. The Zombie Survival Guide was probably more difficult to write than most poetry, and it isn't special in the least. The only reason we care about poetry is because the people before us cared, and the only reason they cared is because the people before them cared as well. It all just stems back to someone taking poetry for far more than it actually was.
The only true beauty or relevance poetry ever offers is in performance. Only when poetry is performed does it actually mean something, but this level of importance is meaningless since any script, ordered or not, gains meaning when performed. The only time poetry has any special connotations is the time when anything else in its place would as well.
And so, to answer the questions. Poetry is important because someone way back when decided order was good and that we were going to strive to achieve it for no apparent reason. No, it is not too much for AP students because it has no added meaning than ordinary text does. The only thing that distinguishes it from among the rest is order, and that provides nothing for it in the end.
And, my personal view of poetry? It's a piece of cake, people take it WAY too seriously, they make a mountain out of a molehill every time they take it on. They think it's difficult to write when it isn't, they think it's difficult to decipher, which it isn't, and they find far too much deep meaning in it because they think it must have because it is poetry.
There's nothing special about poetry. I'm sick of spendind hours trying to find more meaning in the poems than the author actually put in them. Let's face it. Just cuz it rhymes doesn't make it any better than what it is: Words.
Thank you, and good night.
I definately have a difficult time trying to find meaning in poetry, but think that learning about poetry poses a good level of difficulty for an AP class. People will find poetry more enjoyable if they learn to deciper meaning or understand it better, but there will always be the occasional person who will dislike for the sheer fact that poetry in todays ignorant society is something only for Valentines day. (Roses are red, violets are blue kinda stuff :) he he)
ReplyDeleteI have had a difficult time with this new poetry unit, but am begining to enjoy it more as i learn more about it. Am i going to be a poet when i grow up? Ehh...probably not. But, I will probably continue to read and find joy in their meaning (or lack of meaning...ie-the red wagon poem ha ha.)
I think poetry is important to learn about because it helps us to understand different cultures throughout history, and also can help us to understand people on a deeper and subconscious level.
Roses are red, violets are blue, Ms Rhodehouse should not dock me points for this being late because i wrote a dang poem too! :D
-Jaime
Oh and P.S. in response to Karissa's comment, I like how you mentioned that poetry is all around us :) Ill definately be looking for it more-even if i dont mean to.
ReplyDelete-Jaime (agian)
I think poetry is much like this assignment. Poems are limitless, without boundaries - something very similar to my belief that the due date for this blog post should have no restrictions. I strongly feel that by forcing such constraints, we as students are likewise crippled in our creative thought process. The reason poetry is such an essential part of literature is that its meaning has no bounds, no end, and definitely no points docked just because an assignment was several days late.
ReplyDeleteIndeed, the reason poetry can be so powerful is that it exists individually inside each of us. It exists, changing and growing, deep down where no one can see - effecting things greatly on a personal scale, while not touching things like, say, english ap grades.
Don't get me wrong, it should doubtlessly be included in the ap curriculum, but handled for what it is. Not forced into an ill fitting mold.
As for my thoughts on poetry, I really love some of it, and really think some of it is junk. Poetry is interesting in my opinion, but not something I'm going to sit around reading for hours.
So, um, blegrlhehg. Be nice to my grade. Please don't make me cry.
As my responsey thingy, I think Jaime made an excellent point.
ReplyDeleteRoses are red, violets are blue, if you haven't got the hint don't dock me too. (: