According to Aldous Huxley, his novel Brave New World was meant to be a satire. As satires go, they often try to point out social or personal weaknesses by poking fun of them in some exaggerated sort of way. For Huxley, he was obviously trying to point to systems that were attempting to make people more uniform, to not think for themselves, etc. In doing that, he created a society that seems absurd to us.Tess was also a book that critiqued society, in the ways they judged others, including women. Obviously though, Tess of the D'Urbervilles is NOT a satire, but was a tragedy. Rather than poking fun of Tess's life, Thomas Hardy allowed us to see what Tess felt and thought.
Here is what I'd like you to consider and discuss here:
- How are these two types of social criticism different, and what effect do you think they have on people? In other words, what do you suppose is the difference in the reaction to both pieces?
- Which technique do you find most interesting, or that speaks to you? (It could be both, but for different reasons.)
- Share one exaggerated moment from Brave New World that most stood out to you as a satire (funny).
Good luck!
First post? Oh dear. Now I feel like an overachiever. :P
ReplyDeleteAaaanyway... I think the main difference between these two types of social criticism is that one makes you feel, and the other makes you think. When I think of Tess, for example, I think of it as a really sad book in which I grew attached to the characters only for them to end up dead or miserable. You really feel the injustice. On the other hand, when I think of Brave New World, I don't really associate any emotion with it. In that sense it left me kind of cold. But while I'm reading it I'm thinking to myself, "Oh wow, we really do all those things!" and I'm constantly trying to draw parallels between Huxley's fictitious world and our everyday life. In my opinion, allegory and satire is much more interesting. It's definitely more mentally stimulating and engaging than a story of romance and tragedy, although those are nice too.
I'm going to have to admit that nothing in Brave New World so far has struck me as humorous, at least not that I can remember, but I definitely thought their whole religious song and dance ritual was completely absurd. It just seemed so... wrong. And what was up with Bernard's obsession over that lady's unibrow? That was weird.
And there's my two cents.
Ashley Nuccitelli (A4)
Yay! Thanks for being the first to jump in here Ashley. It makes me very happy. :)
ReplyDeleteMs. R
This is Cait Boyce, B2.
ReplyDeleteThe social criticism Aldous Huxley attempted is probably less effective than that of Hardy because Brave New World isn't as direct. It takes a greater amount of analysis to understand what he was trying to express. Hardy was far more straightforward in his criticism.
I think that the part of Brave New World that I found the most ridiculous is the belief that the word "mother" is a vulgar term. That made me laugh...
MY RESPONSE...
I found Hardy's technique to be more emotional in nature and Huxley's to be more intellectual (like what Ashley was saying.)
PS. Will somebody PLEASE tell me what an orgy-porgy is?
Cait, I was wondering the same thing.
ReplyDeleteAlso I stumbled across a 1919 poem by Rudyard Kipling called "The Gods of the Copybook Headings" which uses the phrase brave new world: http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_copybook.htm I don't really get it, but it sounds cool. I think it's sort of along the same satirical lines as the book, but I could be wrong.
Ashley Nuccitelli (A4)
Jaime Terrell- B2
ReplyDeleteI think that while both Hardy and Huxley were trying to point out social flaws, it is interesting to recognize that one focused on feminism/ gender roles, while the other practically infused the genders together to criticize a society as a whole.
I cannot say that i believe one technique influenced me more than the other; Hardy made me sympathize and feel Tess' emotion, while Huxley made me question and think. What connects these books for me is that while reading both stories, at certain times i felt uncomfortable. This feeling is what made me consider why these ideas and situations had the reaction they did on me, and how our society has influenced me to feel that way.
The most satirical theme in Brave New World for me personally is not one moment, but expressed throughout the story; the idea that it is the norm and encouraged to have sex with as many people as a person wishes, because "everyone belongs to each other." I think this is a satire because in our society individualism and monogamy are what is expected and expected.
I love how controversial Brave New World is :D so entertaining.
Jaime Terrell-B2 (second response)
ReplyDeleteI TOTALLY agree with Ashley Nuccitelli's comment that one novel makes you feel while the other makes you think! Ha we practically wrote the same thing lol!
And Cait, uhhh...yeah what in the is an "orgy-porgy"? I can guess...but i dont want to guess wrong! ha ha ha
Laken Lott :)
ReplyDeleteWell, I think that there is a big difference between the two critiques. Obviously Thomas Hardy's way makes you compassionate and empathetic for Tess and almost makes you sad for her, and Aldous Huxley's critique makes you analyze what's happening and laugh at some parts. One big difference between these two, I beleive, is the fact that Aldous Huxley's critique is much more subtle than Thomas Hardy's, and that makes Brave New World harder to understand in some case. With Tess, it's obvious to see that she has been mistreated by society, and that her life is really bad, but in Brave New World I don't think people really consider the fact that it's critiquing (if that's spelled right) society as much as the fact that it's just a "fiction" novel of a made up world. The critiques in Brave New World are A LOT more subtle in my opinion.
I think both ways kind of stand out to me because I felt sympathetic and in some ways empathetic towards Tess and at the same time Brave New World made me really mad at parts and it made me question and think more. So both ways really stood out/"spoke" to me, but I think the more interesting way was Aldous Huxley's way because it was just so much different than a lot of things we encounter in every-day life and it just kind of makes you take a step back and look at things more.
The thing that most stood out to me as a satire was the fact that they worshipped Ford and that they thought God was in the past. I think the funniest/most ridiculous example of this is on page 110 when Lenina says "But cleanliness is next to fordliness," that made me laugh. :)
Laken Lott :)
ReplyDeleteCait I agree with you very much! And I pretty much said that same thing once I went back and read yours :) I completely agree that Aldous Huxley's criticism is less effective! Very nice word. I didn't think about using effective. You took the words right out of my mouth! :)
Amanda Robertson A4
ReplyDeleteI think Thoms Hardy was trying to point out social flaws by making the reader feel something while Aldous Huxley was trying to do the same thing by making you think about it. In Tess you get to know the characters and their emotions so you sympathize with them but in Brave New World the characters don't have a whole lot of emotions so instead of sympathizing with the character you have to look at the society and how it creates people that have no strong emotion.
I think Aldous Huxley's technique stood out the most to me because I really had to think about it. In Tess I could see the injustice easily but in Brave New World I really had to look at their society and think about the injustice in it.
I think the most satirical part is when Mustapha Mond says "history is bunk" because history makes us who we are and in our society it's important for us to learn about history.
Amanda Robertson
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ashley that the whole orgy-porgy thing was disturbing and it did seem really wrong.
Loclyn Torres B2
ReplyDeleteI think that Hardy made more of a lasting impression with Tess, but Huxley inspired more contemplation with Brave New World. After reading Tess I thought more about Tess as a person, rather than the injustice of society. Brave New World made me take a good look at how society is "conditioning" all of us and how it shapes who we are. I think that Huxley did make more of an impact, because his was more focused on the bigger picture.
Both books inspired me in different ways. I thought Tess was a very poetic and beautiful book, while Brave New World was a very well thought and philosophical book.
I thought that it was interesting how they made mention of Ford being Freud in Brave New World,because Freud believes we all have a part of us called the id,that demands immediate satisfactions.
Loclyn Torres B2 (2nd Response)
ReplyDeleteLaken, I also thought that it was funny how they said, "cleanliness is next to Fordliness." It sounds like something my mom would say.
Courtney Boss
ReplyDeleteI think Huxley did a better job in showing us how society was really like, rather than just giving us a story. When I read Brave New World, I did not really connect with the characters. Things are so different now, compared to the book and it was hard for me to relate to it. In Tess, I could really connect with Tess. We aren't as sympathetic for any of the characters in Brave New World, as we were in Tess.
I liked the way Tess was written. It was simpler, more straight forward and easy to connect with.
Hmm.. a satirical part in the book... I thought it was pretty funny when John almost worshiped his father. Hahah. "Oh father." And also the way Linda reacted when she saw him. "You made me have a baby!"
Courtney Boss (response)
ReplyDeleteAshley and Jaime.. I definately agree with you. I FELT in Tess of the D'urbervilles, but I was always THINKING in Brave New World. I found that interesting how I'm not the only one who felt differently throughout the stories.
Ammon Ostler
ReplyDeleteThomas Hardy wrote to shove his literature in the face of people. He plainly told them what they were doing. On the other hand Huxley wanted his readers to think and understand for themselves.
I personally feel that when I find things out for myself it is more powerful than when something is shoved in my face.
I am not sure what was funny for me. The part of the book that impressed me the most was when John was talking with Mustapha Mond. This was my favorite part of the book because John did not do a lot of flinching in the somewhat debate.
Ammon Ostler (response)
ReplyDeleteI liked what Ashley said on Brave New World, how we really do all those things.
Like when the scents made the people in the book feel better. Plug it in Plug it in.
Going golfing in the book was big, even if it is not golfing like we do. Golfing in Hawaii, that was great, golf course right next to our house, hit a bucket of balls for five bucks.
I think it is interesting what you can get from the book, Brave New World
It seems the main difference to me between the two types of criticism, is that in novels like Brave New World the author has already made fun of the text's ridiculousness, in books like Tess however, the readers are responsible to groan at the cheesiness and poke fun at Thomas Hardy themselves. (:
ReplyDeletePersonally, I thought Brave New World was a million times better written, thought out, and impacting than Tess. Brave New World made me really think, feel, and take a look at society.
Don't ask my why, but I thought it was really funny whenever John would start spouting out Shakespeare. Especially when he was calling Lenina all those funny names.
Hannah
Karissa Sorenson A4
ReplyDeleteIn having to read "Tess of the d'Urbervilles" and "Brave New World" i have noticed that both of these authors techinques have been very effective. Hardy's techinque was to use feelings and get the reader to feel the injustice of what has happened. Huxley on the other hand uses a techinque that makes the reader think about where society is at and where it could end up. Both of them wanted to show society their faults .
I find that both techinques have an effect on me. One is more effective at times but it mostly depends on the situation that is being addressed.
My favorite part in the book, is where Bernard is in the locker room and the other guys are talking about Lennia. I found it interesting that everyone is suppost to be uniform and think the same, but Bernard doesn't. Like when the other guys are talking about "having Lennia" and Bernard is thinking that they are treating her like a piece of meat and that Lennia thinks that way to. I thought it was so funny the way he likes to be different from the others and isn't afraid of it.
Karissa Sorenson A4
ReplyDeleteAmanda I agree that in "Brave New World" you have to take a step back and look at the society that has been created and see what isn't working. The society in "Brave New World" is one that we don't really comprehend and think is funny, but in reality the society has problems that are most of the time hidden under something we think is way beyond what our own society is capable of.
Karissa Sorenson A4
ReplyDeleteAmanda I agree with you on the part that in "Brave New World" you have to think about the injustice in the soceity that Huxely created. In reading this book you have to take a step back and look at how this soceity was created and find out waht the problems are with it. Because everything may seem fine and dandy but there could be something that everyone 'believes' is right but really isn't and their is that one person that will realize that and undo everything that was created.
Josh Bell B-2
ReplyDeleteI think the difference between the two novels is that Hardy mainly focused on the flaws and imperfections of women. His main idea was that a women's purity meant everything and it definied her social status. Huxly criticizes anything and anyone who is different, including men. If you were different, even in your train of thoughts, then you were looked down upon and basically disregarded as a person as a whole. The technique that stands out most to me is Huxley's concept. A lot of different places in the world are really like that kind of society. They want complete order with not independence or a sense of difference between anyone or anything. The part where the director said something about everyone awaiting the inescapable future is something that I found rather funny because that's how their society really was. There really was no escaping your future.
It's Josh Bell again. Um Courtney I do agree with the part about how the layout of the two stories was different as they tried to portray their kind of society's to people. I do think that Huxley was more technical in his writing while Hardy based his message more on a story.
ReplyDeleteI think Ashley said exactly what I was thinking. The biggest difference is the way one asks you to think, and the other to feel. Thomas Hardy really wanted you to feel sympathy towards Tess, because of what she was going through. On the other hand, Huxley really wanted you to think about the direction in which our society is (or was, in his case)going.
ReplyDeleteThe approach that really hit me was the sympathy technique from Thomas Hardy. It might just be because I was a girl, but I felt like I could really relate to Tess, and how hard it was for her, or any woman for that matter, back then.
The thing that struck me as really funny was when the people came to watch the Savage. I thought the people were being ridiculous, but then I got to thinking...It really is like those side shows in the circus, like the bearded lady, or the man who can swallow swords. The general culture thinks it's disgusting, but they still pay big money to see it.
Rebecca Clark
A-4
I totally agree with Ashley, and Amanda. The whole "Orgy-Porgy" thing just about made me want to throw up. I understand now why people think this is a dirty book. I didn't find it "dirty" as much as I did disterbing...like those little babies they used shock therapy on, or the gas they used to calm that fight down. Yucky...
ReplyDeleteRebecca Clark
(response)
I really think Josh made a good point. Perhaps one of the reasons books like Brave New World are so effective, is because in places they are uncomfortably close to society today.
ReplyDeleteHannah
Susannah Crump A-4
ReplyDeletedifferences between satire and tragedy... hmm. Tragedy plays on the victim, or applies to your feelings. (which I believe has been stated above multiple times) but I also think that satire involves emotions too, I'd like to take what Ashley said and tweak it just a bit: Satire, as in the case of Brave New World makes you scared, its like listening to Rush limbaugh when he's on a hate government tirade.You don't feel secure which is what motivates you to change.
My favorite: In this case I much preferred Tess to Brave new World, but I'm a fan of satire as long as it stays inside the bounds which I consider funny. (Oscar Wilde, Johnathan Swift, gotta love those Irish authors)Tess was a beautiful character, whereas lenina made me ill. Both were effective in delivering their messages to me. not easy to forget.
favorite Brave New World Moment: I have to go with a whole chapter,(sorry its not funny) chapter 16. I love chapters that I need to read over again just to re think them.
Tyler Wakamatsu
ReplyDeleteIn Hardy's Tess of the d'Urbervilles, a woman's virtue is key for her life. In Huxley's Brave New World, a woman is everyman's woman and virtue doesn't exist in the 'civilized' world. Between the two novels, the values of virtue of woman switch with each other. The people of both time periods were shocked and stunned at the messages in these novels. These authors had enough courage to be the ones to publicly denounce society, and the faults of the 'society norms'. I really didn't like Tess a whole lot because it is a tragedy, but it is good to expand your reading genres. I actually like Brave New World (shocking to me), it actually isn't really very dirty at all really, because Huxley doesn't go in depth like some other books (yuck!). I found several funny moments that made me smile, and I hope you all did too.
Susannah #2
ReplyDeleteI have to disagree with Caitlin on the statement that Brave New World was less effective because it was less direct.
Brave New World was entirely direct in it's purpose. If Aldous Huxley had been any more direct I'm fairly sure we wouldn't have been able to read this book in school. Brave New World throws social conservations out the door and hits us with their direct opposites.
Mother=vulgar, I think that's pretty clear.
Tyler Wakamatsu
ReplyDelete(Response)
Ammon, Methane?
Ammon, I agree with your initial post wholehartedly. Especially the personal finding out of things. I would rather learn for myself than have everything just shoved in my face (pie anyone?) ;D. There have been many points made here, and many responses, and I feel like I would like to respond to each of them, but alas, my time is short though.
Courtney, I like your last paragraph, it was one of my favorite passages too.
AP Amaya
ReplyDeleteHoly cow, brave new world has definatly been the hardest book to read!!!!! ok i just had to yell that out.
Oh by the way Ms. Rhodeouse i saw you at prom :) ok let me get to the point now.
There is definatly a big difference in both sotries. When i read Tess i actually felt her pain, there was alot of emetions felt in Tess. But in Brave New world i felt so far away from all the characters, they didnt even feel like people at one point. It did make me think alot, i was confused the whole time cause i didnt really understand the point of the story...i kinda come to think that the story didnt really have a point. There were so many characters scattered everywhere that felt sometimes at though i was reading a maze. (confusing i know)
I definatly prefer Hardy's technique it was more simple to understand and i got so attached to all the characters it kind of sometimes felt like a reality show.
I didnt think Brave new world had too much humor, but they had lots of bisar things (dont know how to spell apparently). Like leina( the slut one) never wanted to be with Benard alone and she actually wanted to go see a wresetling match. i just didnt think that was lady like.
now i am done :)
AP Amaya :)
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with Ashley Nuccitelli 100%!!
Both stories had a differ, Tess made you feel more and Brave New World made you think more. i think Huxley was trying to play with your mind as much as he could while hard wanted you to develop feeling and emoints with all the characters.
CARLI
ReplyDeleteThe difference between the two is that Brave New World is a little more subtle. I don't think that people really understood what he was doing when the read it so they liked it more. Where as Tess was very blunt and in your face so people were offended by it because it was so obvious that he was making fun of society.
Well, I really like Brave New World because, for me at least, I could really see the little pokes at society he made and i thought it was kind of funny. I really liked Tess though because there were a lot of little things in there that I wouldn't have noticed if Ms. Rhodehouse hadn't pointed them out and it made me feel like I was in a secret club or something.
hmmm...in Brave New World I laughed at the part where Lenina basically throws herself at John. In her world that was a totally normal thing to do, but he was absolutely appalled by it and I thought it was kind of funny to see the two colliding. I felt bad for him because it ruined the way that he thought of Lenina, but there was really no way it could've been helped. How embarrassing it must have been to be her and be running around naked with your socks and shoes still on. Quiet a funny image.
CARLI #2
ReplyDeleteKarissa I liked that part too! When Bernard gets so mad about the way those dumb boys are talking about Lenina it made me so happy. But then later in the book you find out what a big boob he is. That made me sad. I was really hoping that Bernard would help Lenina to see things the way he does and they could live happily ever after or something..but that didn't happen. too bad.
Hey this is Josh Freeman
ReplyDeletePeople look at Brave New World and wonder what kind of peple would do this. While with Tess I think that Hardy was trying to make people feel more guilty because they felt bad for Tess. I think both techniques worked because in Tess it made me feel mad at the stupid people in her life. While in the Brave New World it made me laugh and say these people are ridiculous. My favorite Brave New World moment was when Lenina saw the old man and she didn't know what was wrong with him.
Josh Freeman #2
ReplyDeleteI agree with Carli I thought it was really easy to see the pokes at society that Huxley made.
Miranda here :)
ReplyDeleteI would have to say that the biggest difference to me between the two is that Tess showed us how our society was, whereas Brave New World highlights in an exaggerated way how it is and could become. Hardy helps us learn about the mistakes of the past and Huxley points out problems in current and future society.
Personally, I liked the satirical approach a lot more. Mostly because I like thinking about philosophical things like that. I also just really dislike when authors make you like a character and then have horrible things happen to them. And I got really sick of Hardy's bird fetish really fast.
In addition, I liked that Brave New World was funny. I had quite a few laugh out loud moments while reading. One thing in particular was the ridiculous games
they come up with in order to get people to consume more, like centrifugal bumble-puppy and Riemann surface tennis. It just made me laugh.
Miranda again--
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with Ash about the feeling vs thinking. Tess made me sad, but Huxley made me think about some aspects of our society that are just as perverse as what he created in BNW.
Both of the texts are really very similar in how they criticized society. Though Brave New World did required a little thought to point out exactly what was being made fun of (and only a little...), both the satire and the tragedy were very blunt. As it has been said above, one feels and one thinks. Following those lines, I believe the most common reactions are some of the following: A) Anger. B) Deep connections to the text in some strange way. C) Profound Silence. D) Utter Confusion. And my personal favorite, E) That-went-over-my-head-with-how-you-got-so-philosophical/(read-inbetween-the-lines-deep)-with-a-few-lines-of-a-book indifference. Hardy has a tendency to make choice E come out of my head, which points me to make him the more interesting one, but Huxley was more interesting to me due to the understandable print (it made sense to me at least), and the underlying stabs. The laughable part was when Lenina called Bernard normal after he stopped thinking for himself in the sky.
ReplyDeleteResponding, 1,2,3,....
Brave New World is absolutely ridiculous. Absolutely. Or is it? Again, as it has been pointed out before, it's not too far off the mark, now is it Josh?
well, being the last one (or close to), has a nice sense of procrastinated triumph. . .
Taylor Berg (A4)
Both are different yet similar. The main difference is one makes you think while the other makes you feel. However, both leave a message of some kind with you. With Tess I felt bittersweet throughout the whole entire book. Just when things get better they suddenly crash. With BNW I just read it . . . I felt nothing whatsoever, it was a book that definitely made you think and see the similarities between their messed up society and our 21st century society. I enjoy a good satire or parody but, maybe its just because I am a girl, I enjoy the more romantic, tragedy sphere. I like to feel emotion when I read, though being humored is an emotion I feel more connected with more deeper emotions.
ReplyDeleteI guess BNW was funny. I didn't find it funny though I did find the children games ridiculous and Benard's obsession over the lady's unibrow amusing.
To Miranda
ReplyDeleteI did not, whatsoever find the book funny. It was interesting but dull for me. I enjoy the more deeper, emotional books. They provide more brain juice to flow through my mind and get me thinking. Also I agree with your remark about authors getting you to like a character then killing them off. I can go into a whole spiel on Harry Potter and how Fred dies . . . grrr.
Shelby Sorensen,
ReplyDeleteI think that the main difference between the two types of social critisims is the way you feel when you read them. For me I was not able to connect to Brave New World at all...But I feel like Tess is more relatable. I mean I have never gone through what she has but you feel more sympathy for her versus just being creeped out. So your reactions are different. For Tess your reaction is to feel sad but for Brave New World it is hard to really feel anything!
I think that satire is definitely more interesting! It doesnt leave you feeling sad or upset when a character that you love dies! As for Brave New World the funniest part is when they are meeting the village people for the first time and they meet Linda and they describe as a overweight harlet with nasty teeth, but for some reason she still finds a way to sleep with all the men!
Shelby Sorensen B2
To Ashley....
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with you! You dont really feel anything while reading Brave New World. Also there wasnt really much funny about it! It was really weird!
Shelby SOrensen B2